CCSC Landing Accident?

A disheartening repeat. A similar towplane-glider collision occurred Fall 2014. In that case, the towplane landed downwind due to noise abatement agreement.

The Pawnee can land extremely short. Seems like you should have a really good reason to land downwind.

Was the one your thinking of in Georgia at a CAP camp?

There was also a nose over on a downwind landing at the Seniors a few years ago wasn't there?

On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 9:51:01 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
A disheartening repeat. A similar towplane-glider collision occurred Fall 2014. In that case, the towplane landed downwind due to noise abatement agreement.

The Pawnee can land extremely short. Seems like you should have a really good reason to land downwind.

As others have stated, it's really no big deal to land downwind in light winds. And there is a really good reason for doing it, as long as it can be done safely: efficient towing.

The whole point of aerotowing it to maximize launches. And landing downwind (or opposite traffic, if the wind is L & V or a crosswind) makes for an efficient operation - if done intelligently and the airfield configuration and traffic is suited to it.

I could argue that landing the towplane downwind is actually the SAFEST way to operate a towplane, especially on a single runway.

Of course, you do have to know how to fly your plane - and always follow the maxim that if you are going to crash, hit the softest, least expensive thing at the lowest speed possible...

Kirk

Notice the 500' wide Taxiway D at Moriarty Municipal Airport
,583m/data=%213m1%211e3.
Tow plane lands into the wind, taxis past glider staged on the taxiway,
rope is hooked up and tow is underway. During contests, 40+ gliders are
staged on the taxiway and one of 5 tow planes taxis past, glider is
pushed onto the runway, other tow planes are landing behind (approx
2,500' from threshold to staging point), it runs like a well-oiled
machine. No need for downwind landings.


On 4/25/2016 9:22 AM, kirk.stant wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 9:51:01 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
A disheartening repeat. A similar towplane-glider collision occurred Fall 2014. In that case, the towplane landed downwind due to noise abatement agreement.

The Pawnee can land extremely short. Seems like you should have a really good reason to land downwind.
As others have stated, it's really no big deal to land downwind in light winds. And there is a really good reason for doing it, as long as it can be done safely: efficient towing.

The whole point of aerotowing it to maximize launches. And landing downwind (or opposite traffic, if the wind is L & V or a crosswind) makes for an efficient operation - if done intelligently and the airfield configuration and traffic is suited to it.

I could argue that landing the towplane downwind is actually the SAFEST way to operate a towplane, especially on a single runway.

Of course, you do have to know how to fly your plane - and always follow the maxim that if you are going to crash, hit the softest, least expensive thing at the lowest speed possible...

Kirk

--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 11:22:41 AM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:

Of course, you do have to know how to fly your plane

This is another one of those cases where the maneuver is perfectly safe if you have the currency/proficiency to do it, and you're not having a bad day, and the wind cooperates.

In some scenarios, downwind-towplane-landing launches more gliders more quickly, or it is the only practical solution, or it is the safest solution with all factors considered. But I doubt that it is always more productive, safer, or necessary.

Wherever possible, the consequences of the most likely (and apparently common) pilot error should be minimal.

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 12:29:55 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
This is another one of those cases where the maneuver is perfectly safe if you have the currency/proficiency to do it, and you're not having a bad day, and the wind cooperates.

That pretty much describes all of aviation - what's your point?


In some scenarios, downwind-towplane-landing launches more gliders more quickly, or it is the only practical solution, or it is the safest solution with all factors considered. But I doubt that it is always more productive, safer, or necessary.

Duh. Just about everything in aviation is highly situational - when the wind is strong or there is lots of other traffic, downwind landings are obviously not the way to go. Again, what's your point?


Wherever possible, the consequences of the most likely (and apparently common) pilot error should be minimal.

Gee, if you prevent the pilot from getting into the cockpit, you would totally minimize the consequence of the most likely pilot error - committing aviation. Since most accidents seem to happen in the pattern, perhaps we just shouldn't fly patterns!

Wherever possible, pilots should be well trained and aware of their skill level and capabilities, and fly accordingly. Unless you have a lot of experience flying a variety of towplanes at a variety of sites in a variety of conditions, pontificating about safety is a bit much.