Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/13/2004 9:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 05:27:27 GMT, Michael Wise wrote:

One interesting thing I've noted is that Vietnam vets who fought
hand-to-hand combat seem to overwhelmingly be far less retroactively
gung-ho on the war than those who flew fixed wing far above. Why do you
suppose that is?


There could be a number of reasons. First, the number who today claim
"hand-to-hand combat" seems unfortunately to be drastically inflated
by thousands of poseurs claiming to be something they were not. See
Burkitt's "Stolen Valor" for some astonishing tales.

Of those who served on the ground, the proportion of career to draftee
and officer to lower-rank enlisted could change the perception of
events. Of ground vets from Vietnam, I have seldom encountered any
that went so far as John Kerry in their condemnation of their fellow
warriors. I know of none that have called their service traitorous,
their actions and those of their comrades criminal, or their service
dishonorable. Maybe I don't travel in the right circles.

As for those who flew "far above", you might want to consider the
sustained loss rates of the Rolling Thunder participants in comparison
to those "hand-to-hand" combats. Or, maybe check the proportion of
POWs between the ground and air combatants.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Only the infantry stole stole valor, never the airmen?

On 13 Jun 2004 18:30:24 GMT, (Lisakbernacchia)
wrote:

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus

There could be a number of reasons. First, the number who today claim
"hand-to-hand combat" seems unfortunately to be drastically inflated
by thousands of poseurs claiming to be something they were not. See
Burkitt's "Stolen Valor" for some astonishing tales.

Only the infantry stole stole valor, never the airmen?

You seem intent on becoming a regular contributor here. If that is so,
then might I suggest that you read just a bit more slowly and try to
detach a bit from your agenda.

I did not say that only "the infantry stole valor..." Nor does
Burkitt. There have been a rash of poseurs claiming to be SEALs,
Special Ops, CIA operatives, POWs, MOH recipients, and pilots.

Recently at a ceremony in Colorado a man in the uniform of an AF
colonel, wearing wings and the AF Cross, told stories of having been a
POW, escaping captivity, evading capture, heroic flights, etc. His
problem was that he never rose above the rank of A/1C, that he was
never a pilot, never a POW and never left the US when he was on active
duty. His biggest problem was that also on the podium was the National
Commander of the Nam-POWs who proceeded to blow the whistle on him.

The reality is that while there were hundreds of thousands who saw
ground combat in SEA, there were millions who served in support
functions both in country and elsewhere. Many have made claims of
combat experience that are untrue. Many, of course are very true.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/13/2004 12:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

You seem intent on becoming a regular contributor here. If that is so,
then might I suggest that you read just a bit more slowly and try to
detach a bit from your agenda.


Only I have an agenda and you have none?. 'Id say that your claim that we won
in VN is clearly an agenda..And one lacking in merit on any basis.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote

Recently at a ceremony in Colorado a man in the uniform of an AF
colonel, wearing wings and the AF Cross, told stories of having been a
POW, escaping captivity, evading capture, heroic flights, etc. His
problem was that he never rose above the rank of A/1C, that he was
never a pilot, never a POW and never left the US when he was on active
duty. His biggest problem was that also on the podium was the National
Commander of the Nam-POWs who proceeded to blow the whistle on him.

The reality is that while there were hundreds of thousands who saw
ground combat in SEA, there were millions who served in support
functions both in country and elsewhere. Many have made claims of
combat experience that are untrue. Many, of course are very true.

During Desert Storm, there was a USAF guy from Lakenheath, I believe. Went
home on leave just after (or during) operations, and was interviewed, on TV,
as to his experiences in Iraq.

"Pilot, almost got shot down, blowing stuff up, me and my wingman, blah blah
blah"

Turns out he was also an A1C.

Pete