Becker AR-4201 Design Fault?

Did the noise go away when you disconnected the antenna? Didn't see the answer, sorry if this is repeditive.
JJ

JJ, I haven't tried that experiment yet. Need to find a 50 ohm terminator and then get out to the airport where the glider is stored. I'll post the results.

-John, Q3

On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 9:46:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Did the noise go away when you disconnected the antenna? Didn't see the answer, sorry if this is repeditive.
JJ

On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 7:03:39 AM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote:
JJ, I haven't tried that experiment yet. Need to find a 50 ohm terminator and then get out to the airport where the glider is stored. I'll post the results.


You wouldn't need a 50 ohm terminator (dummy load) if you don't transmit. You are only seeing if the interference is RF, coming into the radio via antenna or coax. Disconnecting the coax at the back of the radio should do. If that does eliminate the noise, then a hand held radio with squelch turned down might be useful in locating source.

If it does not eliminate the interference when powered from aircraft buss, turn other stuff off one by one to try to find guilty device. Install ferrites on wiring. If it's still present when powered up from a battery (no other devices turned on) then for sure it's internal.

LNAV would generate a lot of noise and break squelch on some frequencies. Ferrites on LNAV wiring solved problem for me. Best if there's enough wiring slack to go through the ferrite hole more than once - though once will often do.

bumper

Well, I was wrong. The Becker AR4201 radio that’s in my current glider is not generating noise internally on 123.50 MHz. The noise is coming from a GPS in the glider.

In my first glider, I heard noise on 123.50 MHz from the AR4201. The noise was only on that frequency, though, and I sold that glider before I got around to tracking down the source of the noise.

In my second glider, when I heard noise again on 123.50 MHz from its AR4201, I removed the radio from the glider and connected it only to an antenna and a speaker. I heard noise on 123.50 MHz with the antenna disconnected, so I knew it had to be coming from inside the radio. Naturally I figured that the AR4201 had been the source of the noise I'd heard in my first glider, too.

In my third glider, when I also heard noise on 123.50 MHz from its AR4201, I pulled all the fuses except for the radio. The noise was still there, so I believed it was again inside the radio. Strike 3 against Becker? No. Crucially, I had not disconnected the antenna. Yesterday I did disconnect the antenna and surprise, surprise, there was no noise. I obviously goofed during my previous trouble shooting on this glider! But what was the problem?

While reconnecting the antenna, I noticed a green blinking LED on my Cambridge GPS 25. What the heck? It turned out some genius at the factory had wired the GPS 25 to power without going through the panel fuses! When I unplugged the power lead from the GPS 25, the radio became noise free on 123.50 MHz with the antenna connected. Time for ferrites on the GPS 25, and time to exonerate Becker...

Thanks to everyone who wrote in on this thread. I appreciate your helping me to find the source of my noise problem.

-John, Q3

Glad you found the issue and resolved it (sorta).
Thanks for the follow-up, may help others down the road!

The way I like to trouble shoot a radio that is breaking squelch is to turn on only the radio with no squelch.......wide open, so that it gives all background noise. Then I turn on all other electrical equipment, one at a time. Think of it as filling a dam, noise from each unit adds to the overall water level. When the dam is full it spills over or breaks squelch. All equipment will add a little background noise, but some add tremendous amounts. The Cambridge GPS is about the worst offender I have run across. You can try moving the GPS as far away from radio antenna as possible, do this with radio on as you listen to the background noise in different positions. Best bet may be to get another GPS. Grounding everything to ships ground may help, shielding and ferrit's may also help.
Good luck,
JJ

JJ, That's a good technique for finding noise generators, thanks for sharing. You know the glider, so you'll remember that the GPS is on the parcel shelf. That means the radio antenna cable and the GPS output run together for almost 10 feet. I was always going to replace the L-Nav and Gps-Nav, that may happen sooner now.

-John, Q3

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 6:34:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
The way I like to trouble shoot a radio that is breaking squelch is to turn on only the radio with no squelch.......wide open, so that it gives all background noise. Then I turn on all other electrical equipment, one at a time. Think of it as filling a dam, noise from each unit adds to the overall water level. When the dam is full it spills over or breaks squelch. All equipment will add a little background noise, but some add tremendous amounts.. The Cambridge GPS is about the worst offender I have run across. You can try moving the GPS as far away from radio antenna as possible, do this with radio on as you listen to the background noise in different positions. Best bet may be to get another GPS. Grounding everything to ships ground may help, shielding and ferrit's may also help.
Good luck,
JJ

On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 1:19:23 AM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 7:03:39 AM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote:
JJ, I haven't tried that experiment yet. Need to find a 50 ohm terminator and then get out to the airport where the glider is stored. I'll post the results.


You wouldn't need a 50 ohm terminator (dummy load) if you don't transmit. You are only seeing if the interference is RF, coming into the radio via antenna or coax. Disconnecting the coax at the back of the radio should do. If that does eliminate the noise, then a hand held radio with squelch turned down might be useful in locating source.

If it does not eliminate the interference when powered from aircraft buss, turn other stuff off one by one to try to find guilty device. Install ferrites on wiring. If it's still present when powered up from a battery (no other devices turned on) then for sure it's internal.

LNAV would generate a lot of noise and break squelch on some frequencies. Ferrites on LNAV wiring solved problem for me. Best if there's enough wiring slack to go through the ferrite hole more than once - though once will often do.

bumper

The terminator is necessary to keep the radio from receiving anything on the antenna input. An unterminated input will function as a poor antenna. You can make a terminator with a BNC cable and a 50 ohm resistor soldered between the center conductor and the shield. Or you can buy one at:

http://www.trianglecables.com/produc...WMCRoC5vrw_wcB

This is the only way to resolve the issue presented.

Tom