Minooka Accident?

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 6:42:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Yes, for sure, someone in the Chicago club should take a look at the wreckage to see if the seat back is broken. If it is, then contact the investigators (NTSB & FAA) and tell them what was found. I was at the field when a G-103 flew into the cliff, short of the runway. All the Federalli was interested in was checking AD's and to see if the ship was in annual. Glider pilots found the cause which was spoiler opened too far because of a worn stop, resulting in spoiler plate jammed on top of wing skin. Also, fill out a malfunction or defect report with your findings and send it to your local Feds and NTSB.
JJ

Absolutely. We should not rely on NTSB to find the root cause of accidents for us and we should not assume that they're not idiots. All they care about is filling the blanks in their accident report forms. The only useful accident reports I've seen were those which received good information either from the pilot involved, or other pilots.
If it will be found that the backrest was the likely cause, this will be yet another case of accident which could have been avoided if the pilot knew about an issue. There should have been an AD. I cant count how many fatalities could have been avoided if the pilots were aware of potential issues with their gliders. So far I found RAS to be the most reliable source of such knowledge. There should be a database for such things.

According to NTSB, this was the first glider fatality this year. Unfortunately, there was another one near Minden the following day:
http://mynews4.com/news/local/glider...-tahoe-airport

Ramy

At 19:08 17 August 2016, Ramy wrote:
There should be a database for such things.=20

There is. https://members.gliding.co.uk/library/tns/

At 06:17 18 August 2016, Eric Munk wrote:
At 19:08 17 August 2016, Ramy wrote:
There should be a database for such things.=20

There is. https://members.gliding.co.uk/library/tns/

The database is in the BGA Compendium, easily accessible via this link:

https://members.gliding.co.uk/airwor...airworthiness-
directives/

How do you find information for a particular type of glider? Is there
some way to cross reference from the TN numbers?

On 8/19/2016 3:17 AM, James Thomson wrote:
At 06:17 18 August 2016, Eric Munk wrote:
At 19:08 17 August 2016, Ramy wrote:
There should be a database for such things.=20
There is. https://members.gliding.co.uk/library/tns/

The database is in the BGA Compendium, easily accessible via this link:

https://members.gliding.co.uk/airwor...airworthiness-
directives/


--
Dan, 5J

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:56:03 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

How do you find information for a particular type of glider? Is there
some way to cross reference from the TN numbers?

Click the 'Search Airworthiness Library' on the lower right of that page
and enter a word or phrase on the search page that brings up. "SZD55"
brings up two references (the BGA data sheet and a German TN page).



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I had a seat back failure in my youth (hundred years ago) I was driving my 1939 ford, doing about 40 when suddenly I was in the back seat looking at the cieling! A drunk, driving an Oldsmobile, ran into me. I can still remember pulling myself back up into the normal driving position.
Suppose this is what happened to the pilot in this accident? Will anyone ever know why he crashed? Most failures leave whitness marks, I'll bet carefully examination could determine if it failed in the aft direction.
JJ

At 15:56 19 August 2016, Dan Marotta wrote:
How do you find information for a particular type of glider? Is there
some way to cross reference from the TN numbers?

On 8/19/2016 3:17 AM, James Thomson wrote:
At 06:17 18 August 2016, Eric Munk wrote:
At 19:08 17 August 2016, Ramy wrote:
There should be a database for such things.=20
There is. https://members.gliding.co.uk/library/tns/

The database is in the BGA Compendium, easily accessible via this
link:

https://members.gliding.co.uk/airwor...airworthiness-
directives/


--
Dan, 5J

On the BGA page scroll down to find the list of manufacturers and type
certificate holders. Click on the one of interest (eg Allstar PZL)
You will now be offered a pdf of reported problems - both general for
the manufacturer and type specific. Each entry identifies the relevant
TNS for more information.

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 3:08:04 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 6:42:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Yes, for sure, someone in the Chicago club should take a look at the wreckage to see if the seat back is broken. If it is, then contact the investigators (NTSB & FAA) and tell them what was found. I was at the field when a G-103 flew into the cliff, short of the runway. All the Federalli was interested in was checking AD's and to see if the ship was in annual. Glider pilots found the cause which was spoiler opened too far because of a worn stop, resulting in spoiler plate jammed on top of wing skin. Also, fill out a malfunction or defect report with your findings and send it to your local Feds and NTSB.
JJ

Absolutely. We should not rely on NTSB to find the root cause of accidents for us and we should not assume that they're not idiots. All they care about is filling the blanks in their accident report forms. The only useful accident reports I've seen were those which received good information either from the pilot involved, or other pilots.
If it will be found that the backrest was the likely cause, this will be yet another case of accident which could have been avoided if the pilot knew about an issue. There should have been an AD. I cant count how many fatalities could have been avoided if the pilots were aware of potential issues with their gliders. So far I found RAS to be the most reliable source of such knowledge. There should be a database for such things.

According to NTSB, this was the first glider fatality this year. Unfortunately, there was another one near Minden the following day:
http://mynews4.com/news/local/glider...-tahoe-airport

Ramy

It would take some care to determine if the seat moved before the accident, or as a result of the accident. Obviously if it is in the "correct" position, one could probably remove as an issue.
Many tow releases are hard to get to, especially in emergencies or maybe a slipped seat. For a number of ships with low center releases, a loop of parachute cord connected to the release, and laid over the left thigh during launch, can be a meaningful safety improvement.
Lastly- Emergency plan. Ya gotta have one. Right at the top of that plan list is "If something starts to go wrong- I will released and tray again". That includes a wing dropping and hitting the ground in many(most?) cases.
FWIW
UH