Buying a glider, advice on type and prices

On Tuesday, 30 August 2016 08:24:21 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 10:52:20 PM UTC-7, John wrote:
On Monday, 29 August 2016 22:58:11 UTC+1, Dan Daly wrote:
Wow, thanks everyone for taking the time to help, just the kind of information I need. I'm not familiar with the LAK17 so will google it now.

I'm not low time or rusty in any way so just need a briefing on flaps really. Rarely flown with retractable undercarriage so that does concern me slightly and a good warning system would be handy.

My main limitation in a few years may be lifting, so light weight CF wings and easy to rig is important to me. And yes, it must be comfortable for tall pilot and long flights.

New to forums so hope I have posted correctly.

If light wings are important, the SZD-55 is a good candidate. Late 80's standard class (no flaps) 15 m span design; 105 lb wings (no one runs away at assembly time); automatic control hook-ups. Comfortable for tall pilots. Still being produced new; good factory support (recently granted EASA life of 12,000 hours). If you're in the east, works well in weak weather, and if you fill it with water, good out west; can be ordered with an award winning stall warning system (SP-3). Very pretty as well, which should count for something! Availble with polyurathane paint (never a gelcoat finish problem). About the same performance as ASW-24 and original Discus B (less than Discus 2). The North American dealer (and others) flew a number of 1,000 km flights at the Ridge in PA. Less expensive new than other choices...
http://szd.com.pl/en/products/szd-55-1 (factory link)
http://www.windpath.ca/index.php/products/szd-allstar (NA dealer link)

I love my 55! The 24 and Discus are also good choices, and a good trailer makes all the difference, as others have said. Lots of performance, good handling, and safe.

Dan

Looking it up thanks. I'm in Northern UK and poor lift comes as standard!

Light wings and low price for new is a definite bonus.

The site says something like approved life of 3000 hours with extensions so maybe that's the one that's now been upgraded to 12,000 hours. (will check) That's one reason I was looking for a more recent model in case GRP gliders do have problems in later life. Just about anything will outlast me but I'm thinking resale value.

Question: Do all GRP and CF gliders have similar life spans to each other or does it vary considerably?

Most of them seem to be similar - they start out with 3,000 hours and then keep getting extended as the fleet ages and experience is gained. The Pegase is one exception - but only under the aegis of the FAA. If I had your budget and was returning to soaring after a time off I would go with the ASW-28 or Discus 2. Hard to beat a nice friendly standard class (or 18 meter) for pure fun and ease of flying. In the price range you're looking at odds are the gliders will be in a good clamshell trailer which is a wonderful thing. Those of us in the bargain basement have to contend with choosing ships which may come with all sorts of oddball contraptions. There's a privately owned SZD-55 in my club. While I haven't flown it I can attest to the wings being nice and light and the ease of assembly. The build quality seems top notch too. The type certificate in Canada lists a stall warning device as mandatory equipment and two of the three 55's I've seen didn't have them so if the authority where you fly also requires it make sure it's in any 55 you're looking to buy.

Thanks for the nice reply. I'm not wealthy at all, sold my house and bought a caravan when the ex. left me. I love my caravan, it's in a fantastic location and then I found a really exciting ridge soaring site nearby and here I am! May as well spend it whilst I can and have some fun. Thought a decent glider will be as good as money in the bank just now. Really appreciate the friendly help from everyone.

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 2:49:02 PM UTC-4, John wrote:

Thanks for the nice reply. I'm not wealthy at all, sold my house and bought a caravan when the ex. left me. I love my caravan, it's in a fantastic location and then I found a really exciting ridge soaring site nearby and here I am! May as well spend it whilst I can and have some fun. Thought a decent glider will be as good as money in the bank just now. Really appreciate the friendly help from everyone.

This has the makings of a great Country Music song. Ed Kilbourne, where are you?

On Tuesday, 30 August 2016 20:27:26 UTC+1, Papa3 wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 2:49:02 PM UTC-4, John wrote:

Thanks for the nice reply. I'm not wealthy at all, sold my house and bought a caravan when the ex. left me. I love my caravan, it's in a fantastic location and then I found a really exciting ridge soaring site nearby and here I am! May as well spend it whilst I can and have some fun. Thought a decent glider will be as good as money in the bank just now. Really appreciate the friendly help from everyone.

This has the makings of a great Country Music song. Ed Kilbourne, where are you?



On Tuesday, 30 August 2016 20:27:26 UTC+1, Papa3 wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 2:49:02 PM UTC-4, John wrote:

Thanks for the nice reply. I'm not wealthy at all, sold my house and bought a caravan when the ex. left me. I love my caravan, it's in a fantastic location and then I found a really exciting ridge soaring site nearby and here I am! May as well spend it whilst I can and have some fun. Thought a decent glider will be as good as money in the bank just now. Really appreciate the friendly help from everyone.

This has the makings of a great Country Music song. Ed Kilbourne, where are you?

Brilliant idea, yes it does!

On 30/08/2016 20:48, John wrote:

Thanks for the nice reply. I'm not wealthy at all, sold my house and
bought a caravan when the ex. left me. I love my caravan, it's in a
fantastic location and then I found a really exciting ridge soaring
site nearby and here I am! May as well spend it whilst I can and have
some fun. Thought a decent glider will be as good as money in the
bank just now. Really appreciate the friendly help from everyone.

Sounds like you intend to fund your post flying career pension by
reselling the ship. Be careful gliders are not always readily saleable.
A popular make of ship that is suitable for low our pilots would be most
easily resold. You may still take a bit of a knock if you have to sell
in a hurry.

Then look for a good trailer. A good finish, preferably already
refinished in PU. Modern radio and vario/computer and good instruments
with appropriate units (ft, m, knots, km/h, m/s etc) for your country.
Also a ship with good factory support.

Remember to budget for insurance costs if you not in a position to
absorb a "self insurance loss" and "maintenance plan" tax if you go for
one of the older LS/DG models.

Maybe a nice LS4? Or LS8, Discus 2 etc.

Ian

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 2:30:36 AM UTC-5, Ian wrote:

Remember to budget for insurance costs if you not in a position to
absorb a "self insurance loss" and "maintenance plan" tax if you go for
one of the older LS/DG models.

Maybe a nice LS4? Or LS8, Discus 2 etc.

Ian

For the record, I am the owner of an "older LS model", and not associated with the company in any way other than owning a plane and having purchased the "Maintenance Plan". The "Maintenance plan tax" is 245 Euro per year. If that is a deal breaker for you, I think you will find some other reason to not buy a sailplane.

Steve Leonard

Or you could run (not walk) to W&W and buy the Pegase101 that just went up - go to the Pegase Yahoo group and you will find 100 guys who love their Glider (including me) - a great glider to own while you figure out how to spend an additional large chunk of cash.

WH

On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 12:32:13 -0700, bythesea1234 wrote:

Or you could run (not walk) to W&W and buy the Pegase101 that just went
up - go to the Pegase Yahoo group and you will find 100 guys who love
their Glider (including me) - a great glider to own while you figure out
how to spend an additional large chunk of cash.

Pegase wings aren't that light, but not really a problem. I flew my
club's Pegase 90 a lot and really liked it. It was my first high
performance toy after getting Silver on the club's SZD Juniors.

One point to remember about the Pegase: if you have a choice between a
Pegase 101 and a Pegase 90, go for the 90 assuming that all other things
are similar. 101s all have Hotelier connectors on the ailerons and
airbrakes while the 90s were built later and have automatic connections
on all control surfaces.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

OK think you said your in the Northern UK so my advice with the
money and the experience you have and if your looking to sell the ship
at some point and not lose money is to buy a good LS4a, LS8-18
(probably best option if you have around £40-45k to spend) or Discus.
Make sure they have good gel coats and ancillary equipment.

But best talk to your CFI your skill level and what he might think an
appropriate ship - maybe get some time in a high performance two
seater i.e. Duo Discus/DG1000 first.

In the UK you will find it harder to resell an ASW24, ASW27, ASW28,
SZD55, Pegase, Lak 17 or Ventus A/B/C than the above. ASW20's are
getting long in the tooth.

Ignore Americans who don't read threads entirely - there are lots on
here that will give well meaning but crap advice for the UK scene.

On Wednesday, 31 August 2016 22:30:07 UTC+1, Paul T wrote:
OK think you said your in the Northern UK so my advice with the
money and the experience you have and if your looking to sell the ship
at some point and not lose money is to buy a good LS4a, LS8-18
(probably best option if you have around £40-45k to spend) or Discus..
Make sure they have good gel coats and ancillary equipment.

But best talk to your CFI your skill level and what he might think an
appropriate ship - maybe get some time in a high performance two
seater i.e. Duo Discus/DG1000 first.

In the UK you will find it harder to resell an ASW24, ASW27, ASW28,
SZD55, Pegase, Lak 17 or Ventus A/B/C than the above. ASW20's are
getting long in the tooth.

Ignore Americans who don't read threads entirely - there are lots on
here that will give well meaning but crap advice for the UK scene.

Thanks again everyone for keeping the discussion going, I'm learning a lot.
We don't have many high performance gliders at our site and few pilots seem to go cross country.
Have started visiting other clubs to fly different types with flaps etc. Also helping more to rig and see how easy or difficult they are.
Definitely keeping away from older types, gell coat problems, poor spares and heavy wings. I've built and maintained aircraft for years but no longer have the facilities, patience and time on my side to be repairing. I just want to fly as much as possible.

Essential that it is light and easy one man rig due to my age and lack of assistance most days.
In current production or easy to obtain spares.
Yes I would like it to have a good resale value if possible.
Discus, Discus 2 and LS8 keep popping up.
Not sure why a difference of opinion on the ASW27 and ASW28 otherwise these would be on the short list too. I thought they would be good machines and hold the price well?
SZD55 may not hold price so well but much cheaper to buy initially?
Semi-aerobatic would be a bonus, just the odd loop and chandelle on poor soaring days. (we get a lots of them!)
I'm not really in to competitions.

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 3:30:07 PM UTC-6, Paul T wrote:
OK think you said your in the Northern UK so my advice with the
money and the experience you have and if your looking to sell the ship
at some point and not lose money is to buy a good LS4a, LS8-18
(probably best option if you have around £40-45k to spend) or Discus..
Make sure they have good gel coats and ancillary equipment.

But best talk to your CFI your skill level and what he might think an
appropriate ship - maybe get some time in a high performance two
seater i.e. Duo Discus/DG1000 first.

In the UK you will find it harder to resell an ASW24, ASW27, ASW28,
SZD55, Pegase, Lak 17 or Ventus A/B/C than the above. ASW20's are
getting long in the tooth.

Ignore Americans who don't read threads entirely - there are lots on
here that will give well meaning but crap advice for the UK scene.

http://www.segelflug.de/osclass/ is definitely worth checking.