Buying a glider, advice on type and prices

In my view the glider market worldwide is quite sophisticated. If one type tends to be cheaper than others then it is for one or more of a variety of good reasons. I would always buy a good example of a well valued glider and would then be sure of having a glider without drawbacks and that was easy to sell.

The glider market is sophisticated, true. But that doesn't mean it's immune to fads, rumors, and conventional wisdom.

"Easy to sell" has several dimensions. At the right price, any glider can be sold. But there are more potential buyers for a type that's in greater demand (hence, a higher price). What you want is a below-market price on a popular glider. Good luck.

In the meantime, I feel about my ASW 24 like Mike Opitz does about his Discus 2, and I've owned mine for 24 years. The gel coat is showing its age now (though not terribly so) but it still goes with the rest of the Standard Class, is a delight to fly, has Gerhard Waibel's safety cockpit (why I bought it instead of the more popular first-generation Discus at the time), has not suffered the spar waves of some later Schleicher models, is easy to solo rig with the right equipment (I've been solo rigging since 1982), and is comfortable for my 6'3" (1.9m) frame, albeit with a few tweaks from the factory.

But because the initial version didn't have winglets, "everyone knows the '24 doesn't climb well." This was not helped by Schleicher's clever marketing for the ASW 28, which purported to "fix" the problem. In reality, the '24 climbs great with the right winglets. Mine are from Hank Nixon here in the U.S., which are now approved by Schleicher, as I understand it, but there are others.

But...when the time comes to sell it, there will be fewer potential buyers. It's the same challenge I faced when I sold my well-maintained, competition profiled/tuned LS-3. Everyone wanted an ASW 20. The performance was identical but the '20 was (is) almost a "cult" glider in the U.S. And a new buyer (the logical candidate for, at that time, a 13-year-old glider) was more interested in keeping up with his/her buddies, and not just in climb and glide.

Here's an off-the-wall idea. Decent performance, easy to fly, light weight, durable gel coat, large owner group, much lower investment than even a generation-old Standard Class ship: has anyone suggested a Libelle 201? I know Glasflugel has been out of business for decades (most of these gliders are 40 years old) but spares are available from Streifeneder. I flew one for years, including in our first 15M Nationals, and loved every minute of it. Many in the U.S. came in the Eberle "clamshell" trailers that made rigging a trivial task.

Chip Bearden

Long time listener, first time caller...

Looks like I'm in the same situation as John 37. I'm returning to the sport after many years (since about 2000) and kind of wondering which ship to buy. I owned a Libelle 201 previously and put about 450hr on her. The obvious choices are something like a Discus, ASW-24, or an LS. I really don't have a limit on how much I can spend, but a $50K-$60K (US) budget seems reasonable. Except for casual club racing, I have no desire whatsoever to race (20+ years sailboat racing, I done), so having the latest and greatest ship really isn't a huge priority. I'll being using the plane just for X-counrty and pleasure flying in the western US (California/Nevada) and I'll probably fly about 50hr/year.

So other then the obvious choices, I'm a little curious about the LAK and the HpH ships, which really were not around when I left the sport. Anyone care to tell me the pros/cons of buying a LAK or HpH or other? How would you spend $50K-$60K if you were looking to buy?

On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 6:43:30 PM UTC-6, bobanja wrote:
Long time listener, first time caller...

Looks like I'm in the same situation as John 37. I'm returning to the
sport after many years (since about 2000) and kind of wondering which
ship to buy. I owned a Libelle 201 previously and put about 450hr on
her. The obvious choices are something like a Discus, ASW-24, or an LS.
I really don't have a limit on how much I can spend, but a $50K-$60K
(US) budget seems reasonable. Except for casual club racing, I have no
desire whatsoever to race (20+ years sailboat racing, I done), so having
the latest and greatest ship really isn't a huge priority. I'll being
using the plane just for X-counrty and pleasure flying in the western US
(California/Nevada) and I'll probably fly about 50hr/year.

So other then the obvious choices, I'm a little curious about the LAK
and the HpH ships, which really were not around when I left the sport.
Anyone care to tell me the pros/cons of buying a LAK or HpH or other?
How would you spend $50K-$60K if you were looking to buy?




--
bobanja

Well, I do not think you would go wrong buying a nice LAK-17A, an HPH304CZ or a DG600. They are all out there on W&W right now and depending on how they are equipped, and the shape they are in, you can probably purchase one in the $50-$70K range. I have always felt that all 3 gliders are really an excellent value for the money and they will give you fine performance for X-C flying out west. I am a big proponent of flaps, but if you really want a standard class ship, you can look at possibly a Discus 2 (it might be on the high end of your price range...), HPH 304C or an ASW24. Please remember that whatever you purchase be sure that it has a good trailer and one last thing...I strongly believe in good glider brakes, so try to buy a glider with a hydraulic brake. Flying out of airports out west, you may be landing at high altitude airports and a really good hydraulic brake might pay for itself someday....Good luck - Renny

On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 7:00:56 PM UTC-7, Renny wrote:
On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 6:43:30 PM UTC-6, bobanja wrote:
Long time listener, first time caller...

Looks like I'm in the same situation as John 37. I'm returning to the
sport after many years (since about 2000) and kind of wondering which
ship to buy. I owned a Libelle 201 previously and put about 450hr on
her. The obvious choices are something like a Discus, ASW-24, or an LS.
I really don't have a limit on how much I can spend, but a $50K-$60K
(US) budget seems reasonable. Except for casual club racing, I have no
desire whatsoever to race (20+ years sailboat racing, I done), so having
the latest and greatest ship really isn't a huge priority. I'll being
using the plane just for X-counrty and pleasure flying in the western US
(California/Nevada) and I'll probably fly about 50hr/year.

So other then the obvious choices, I'm a little curious about the LAK
and the HpH ships, which really were not around when I left the sport.
Anyone care to tell me the pros/cons of buying a LAK or HpH or other?
How would you spend $50K-$60K if you were looking to buy?




--
bobanja

Well, I do not think you would go wrong buying a nice LAK-17A, an HPH304CZ or a DG600. They are all out there on W&W right now and depending on how they are equipped, and the shape they are in, you can probably purchase one in the $50-$70K range. I have always felt that all 3 gliders are really an excellent value for the money and they will give you fine performance for X-C flying out west. I am a big proponent of flaps, but if you really want a standard class ship, you can look at possibly a Discus 2 (it might be on the high end of your price range...), HPH 304C or an ASW24. Please remember that whatever you purchase be sure that it has a good trailer and one last thing...I strongly believe in good glider brakes, so try to buy a glider with a hydraulic brake. Flying out of airports out west, you may be landing at high altitude airports and a really good hydraulic brake might pay for itself someday....Good luck - Renny

Make sure the trailer paperwork is in order. Neglected by more than you'd think.
Jim

Remmy, Jim,

Thanks for the info. I'm on board with the trailer issues. There is nothing worse than having a crappy trailer. I've had several boat/plane trailers is various states of disrepair and/or various state of legality, so I'll be highly critical in my next purchase. My old Libelle trailer could only be described as "novel."

I'm not really locked into a standard class ship, so something with flaps like a ASW-20, Ventus, LAK-17A or 304CZ could be fun to learn (after the appropriate training).

At any rate, the soaring season is about over, so I'll have plenty of time over the winter to go shopping before the start of next season.

BTW: Is it me or does the sites search function completely suck?

On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 12:43:06 PM UTC-6, bobanja wrote:
Remmy, Jim,

Thanks for the info. I'm on board with the trailer issues. There is
nothing worse than having a crappy trailer. I've had several boat/plane
trailers is various states of disrepair and/or various state of
legality, so I'll be highly critical in my next purchase. My old Libelle
trailer could only be described as "novel."

I'm not really locked into a standard class ship, so something with
flaps like a ASW-20, Ventus, LAK-17A or 304CZ could be fun to learn
(after the appropriate training).

At any rate, the soaring season is about over, so I'll have plenty of
time over the winter to go shopping before the start of next season.

BTW: Is it me or does the sites search function completely suck?




--
bobanja

Fall and winter tend to be a good time to purchase a glider, but do not wait too long because the glider you may be interested in may be sold before you even have a chance to make an offer. Reasonably priced gliders, in good shape and with decent performance, tend to be snapped up quickly.

You really do not want to have to say that you missed out on buying a fine glider because you believed you had "plenty of time" to decide....

Finally, in addition to the LAK-17A (that I mentioned previously), do not overlook the DG-600. It's a fine ship with excellent performance and they are usually very reasonably priced.

Good luck in your glider search! Renny