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A spectacular event that would shock the nation = a surprise attack - it
never had to succeed. Read Part six of McCollum's eight part plan. o the US govt should believe the utterances of EVERY single foreign diplomat in the world? And act on them? should the US have gone to war on 2nd hand information from a PERUVIAN minister? If you'd planned to make this event happen you would not believe even this message had come from Jesus Crist. Who is a Peruvian minister to spoil FDRs plans? and M Dies agenda was? Good question,He was the Chairman of the Committeee, He may well have deduced that, but since the Germans didn't know about any attack on Pearl Harbour until after the event and the Brits were reading German codes, it seems likely that it was ignored as trivial. We know British knew Pearl Harbor attack ,Popovs trstimony was for Brits not new. You don't think that the "Korean underground" had reasons to be making stuff up that might draw the USA into a war with the Japanese? For those who decided to set Pearl Harbor trap for Japanase,of course every warning is very suspicious. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. Thats biggest lie of whole story,IJN sent dispatces too and their dispaches were even more easy than diplomatical ones. But the person responsible for IJN dispatches was McCollum,the Architect of Pearl Harbor trap. Thats the most important part of whole Japan story. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. See above. Yes, why do you make this **** up? Because there is only one reality and this is the reality. Clashes with reality, the US didn't have to lose to be in the war, just get attacked. US did not lose war. Even planners of Pearl Harbor paid attention to this detail,Japanase were only allowed to sink and destroy obsolete equipment. If you put the morality issue aside,you must appreciate McCollums geniality. A final war warning issued to all commanders in the army and navy on November 27 was not heeded because Pearl Harbor was not mentioned as a possible target. So Called war warning was issued for places thousands miles away from Hawaii,but not for Hawaii,even though Washington knew the exact position of Japanese Carriers and the name of their target. Capt.Ranneft of Dutch Navy,the dutch naval arrache, learned the exact position of Japanase Carriers in McCollums department. At that day,they were 300-400 miles northwest of Pearl Harbor The day was Dec,6.1941 Surprise attack????, surely not. Day of Infamy,for some in Washington surely. |
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![]() "Denyav" wrote in message ... A spectacular event that would shock the nation = a surprise attack - it never had to succeed. Read Part six of McCollum's eight part plan. Yeah, try reading some history. o the US govt should believe the utterances of EVERY single foreign diplomat in the world? And act on them? should the US have gone to war on 2nd hand information from a PERUVIAN minister? If you'd planned to make this event happen you would not believe even this message had come from Jesus Crist. Who is a Peruvian minister to spoil FDRs plans? No, the question is who is a peruvian minister and why should info from another Govt be given credence. Other govts have their own agendas. and M Dies agenda was? Good question,He was the Chairman of the Committeee, and you didn't answer the question. He may well have deduced that, but since the Germans didn't know about any attack on Pearl Harbour until after the event and the Brits were reading German codes, it seems likely that it was ignored as trivial. We know British knew Pearl Harbor attack ,Popovs trstimony was for Brits not new. No, you believe the Brits knew, do try to distinguish between fact and your opinion. You don't think that the "Korean underground" had reasons to be making stuff up that might draw the USA into a war with the Japanese? For those who decided to set Pearl Harbor trap for Japanase,of course every warning is very suspicious. Or to put it another way, you believe it so you accept it as fact. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. Thats biggest lie of whole story,IJN sent dispatces too and their dispaches were even more easy than diplomatical ones. No, the IJN sent none - reality is not your friend is it? But since the US had a limited number of Japanese speaking translators and those they had were tasked on the Diplomatic codes, it doesn't matter does it. But the person responsible for IJN dispatches was McCollum,the Architect of Pearl Harbor trap. Thats the most important part of whole Japan story. and a complete lie like the rest of your story. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. See above. No, the IJN sent none - reality is not your friend is it? Yes, why do you make this **** up? Because there is only one reality and this is the reality. No, it is your opinion. Clashes with reality, the US didn't have to lose to be in the war, just get attacked. US did not lose war. They didn't have to lose that battle and by sinking the Japa carriers that launched the attack, they'd have ended it then and there. Reality is not your friend is it? Even planners of Pearl Harbor paid attention to this detail,Japanase were only allowed to sink and destroy obsolete equipment. You mean the equipment they refloated and used, that obsolete equipment? A final war warning issued to all commanders in the army and navy on November 27 was not heeded because Pearl Harbor was not mentioned as a possible target. So Called war warning was issued for places thousands miles away from Hawaii,but not for Hawaii,even though Washington knew the exact position of Japanese Carriers and the name of their target. Capt.Ranneft of Dutch Navy,the dutch naval arrache, learned the exact position of Japanase Carriers in McCollums department. At that day,they were 300-400 miles northwest of Pearl Harbor The day was Dec,6.1941 So you actually believe that the commander of a pacific fleet base who was competent would have ignored a war warning involving Japan, believing perhaps that it had nothing to do with his duties? it was obvious that you were not sane, but it is clear that you are stupid to boot. |
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Read Part six of McCollum's eight part plan.
Yeah, try reading some history. You are pretty good in backpedalling. No, the question is who is a peruvian minister and why should info from another Govt be given credence. Other govts have their own agendas. Sure,alone might not be very interesting,but together with other inelligence different story. No, you believe the Brits knew, do try to distinguish between fact and your opinion. Really,This one of the reasons why Tyler Kent were locked up in Britain in 1940. As Castello,a british citizen and author of "Days of Infamy"correctly stated British documents about Pearl Harbor are subject to secret US-British Intelligence agreement and cannot be declassified without US approval.So these document are in BFO but cannot be classified. Or to put it another way, you believe it so you accept it as fact. May I say,you believe "there is no Pearl Harbor conspiracy" so you accept it as a fact despite countless evidences proving otherwise. No, the IJN sent none - reality is not your friend is it? But since the US had a limited number of Japanese speaking translators and those they had were tasked on the Diplomatic codes, it doesn't matter It was long presumed that as Japanase Fleet approached Hawaii it maintained complete radio silence.This is a total lie.The Fleet barely barely observed discredition,let alone silence. McCollums OPI intercepted and translated various Naval dispatches some clearly revealing that That PH was the target. The Most significant of them the was following,sent from Adm.Yamamato to the Japanase first air fleet on November 26. "The Task force,keeping its movement strickly secret and maintaining close guard aganist submarines and aircraft,shall advance into HAwaian waters and upon the very opening of the hostilities shall attack main force of US fleet and deal it a mortal blow.First air raid planned for the dawn of x-day.Exact date to be given by later order" What Washington did when they got this message? Well they issued famous "War Warning" for the places thousands miles away from Hawaii !!!!!. The issuing famous War Warning for important for Washington for two reasons. 1)They sent Japanase intel wrong message,and assured Japanase that US had no idea about Japans intentions.Pearl Harbor Trap was complete. 2)They wanted to save their own asses. Needless to say again above message was intercepted,deciphered and translated by McCollums department,the architect of Japan plan and also acted as FDRs personal routing officer. Thats the reason why none of intercepted Naval dispatces surfaced in any of Pearl Harbor investigations. You are a friend of reality,dont you? |
#4
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![]() "Denyav" wrote in message ... Read Part six of McCollum's eight part plan. Yeah, try reading some history. You are pretty good in backpedalling. Not backpedalling, you are a loon and your sources crap. No, the question is who is a peruvian minister and why should info from another Govt be given credence. Other govts have their own agendas. Sure,alone might not be very interesting,but together with other inelligence different story. So a Peruvian minister and a conquered people (Korean "underground") together should have caused the USA to go to war? No, you believe the Brits knew, do try to distinguish between fact and your opinion. Really,This one of the reasons why Tyler Kent were locked up in Britain in 1940. As Castello,a british citizen and author of "Days of Infamy"correctly stated British documents about Pearl Harbor are subject to secret US-British Intelligence agreement and cannot be declassified without US approval.So these document are in BFO but cannot be classified. Tyler Kent was born in China in 1911. His father was a member of the U.S. Diplomatic Corps. Kent was educated at Princeton, the Sorbone, the University of Madrid and George Washington University. Kent, who spoke French, Greek, German, Russian, Italian and Spanish, joined the State Department in 1934 as a clerk in the Foreign Service and was posted to Moscow. While in the Soviet Union Kent was accused of helping White Russians to smuggle into the United States various Imperial Russian treasures. It was later revealed that he was also passing on documents to Nazi intelligence while in Moscow. Kent was transferred to London to work as a cypher clerk at the American Embassy. His arrival in England in the company of Ludwig Matthias, a Gestapo agent, brought him to the attention of MI5. In February 1940, Tyler met Anna Wolkoff. Her father, Admiral Nikolai Wolkoff, was the former aide-to-camp to the Nicholas II in London. After the Russian Revolution Wolkoff decided to remain in England. The Wolfoff family ran the Russian Tea Room in South Kensington, a place where members of the secret society, the Right Club, used to meet. Wolkoff introduced Tyler to Archibald Ramsay, the leader of the organization. Wolkoff, Kent and Ramsay talked about politics and agreed that they all shared the same political views. Kent was concerned that the American government wanted the United States to join the war against Germany. He said he had evidence of this as he had been making copies of the correspondence between President Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. Kent invited Wolkoff and Ramsay back to his flat to look at these documents. This included secret assurances that the United States would support France if it was invaded by the German Army. Kent later argued that he had shown these documents to Ramsay in the hope that he would pass this information to American politicians hostile to Roosevelt. On 13th April 1940 Anna Wolkoff went to Kent's flat and made copies of some of these documents. Joan Miller and Marjorie Amor were later to testify that these documents were then passed on to Duco del Monte, Assistant Naval Attaché at the Italian Embassy. Soon afterwards, MI8, the wireless interception service, picked up messages between Rome and Berlin that indicated that Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of German military intelligence (Abwehr), now had copies of the Roosevelt-Churchill correspondence Soon afterwards Wolkoff asked Miller if she would use her contacts at the Italian Embassy to pass a coded letter to William Joyce (Lord Haw-Haw) in Germany. The letter contained information that he could use in his broadcasts on Radio Hamburg. Before passing the letter to her contacts, Miller showed it to Maxwell Knight. On 18th May, Knight told Guy Liddell about the Right Club spy ring. Liddell immediately had a meeting with Joseph Kennedy, the American Ambassador in London. Kennedy agreed to waive Kent's diplomatic immunity and on 20th May, 1940, the Special Branch raided his flat. Inside they found the copies of 1,929 classified documents including secret correspondence between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. So Tyler worked for the Nazis and got locked up by the Brits for doing so (the US having waived his immunity), he also lied ("This included secret assurances that the United States would support France if it was invaded by the German Army") - gee he wouldn't have any reason to try to make himself good at the expense of the US and UK would he? Or to put it another way, you believe it so you accept it as fact. May I say,you believe "there is no Pearl Harbor conspiracy" so you accept it as a fact despite countless evidences proving otherwise. No, the historical evidence shows that there was no conspiracy, just a bunch of sad loons wishing there was one. No, the IJN sent none - reality is not your friend is it? But since the US had a limited number of Japanese speaking translators and those they had were tasked on the Diplomatic codes, it doesn't matter It was long presumed that as Japanase Fleet approached Hawaii it maintained complete radio silence.This is a total lie.The Fleet barely barely observed discredition,let alone silence. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. McCollums OPI intercepted and translated various Naval dispatches some clearly revealing that That PH was the target. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. The Most significant of them the was following,sent from Adm.Yamamato to the Japanase first air fleet on November 26. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. "The Task force,keeping its movement strickly secret and maintaining close guard aganist submarines and aircraft,shall advance into HAwaian waters and upon the very opening of the hostilities shall attack main force of US fleet and deal it a mortal blow.First air raid planned for the dawn of x-day.Exact date to be given by later order" Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. What Washington did when they got this message? Well they issued famous "War Warning" for the places thousands miles away from Hawaii !!!!!. The issuing famous War Warning for important for Washington for two reasons. 1)They sent Japanase intel wrong message,and assured Japanase that US had no idea about Japans intentions.Pearl Harbor Trap was complete. 2)They wanted to save their own asses. They issued a war warning expecting all commanders to act on it, the competent ones did, the incompetent ones spent the rest of their lives peddling conspiracy nonsense to the gullible and stupid. Needless to say again above message was intercepted,deciphered and translated by McCollums department,the architect of Japan plan and also acted as FDRs personal routing officer. Thats the reason why none of intercepted Naval dispatces surfaced in any of Pearl Harbor investigations. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. You are a friend of reality,dont you? The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you really should seek professional help. |
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The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you
really should seek professional help. Really?? Ad Hominem attacks are not a good alternative to research. Do you remember Journalist Leib who met with Cordell Hull and received transcripts of Japanase naval dispaches revealing Pearl Harbor attack? Now as I said before he (Leib) contacted immediately his personal friend and UP Washington chief Wilson and told him the whole story,minus the identity of his source.(Cordell Hull). But Wilson found the story ludicrous and refused to run it. But Leib managed to persuade his other friend,UP cable editor Harry Frantz,to transmit it on foreign cable. So,Leib's story,transmitted on foreign cable,created a front page banner Headline in the Sunday,Nov.30,Honolulu Advertiser: "JAPANASE MAY STRIKE OVER WEEKEND". The journey of this news started in Cordell Hull's office and ended in the front page of an Hawaian paper. Since you are apparently a big fan of reality and truth,you might want to visit your local library check out newspaper. |
#6
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![]() "Denyav" wrote in message ... The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you really should seek professional help. Really?? Ad Hominem attacks are not a good alternative to research. Perhaps if you did some research you wouldn't leave yourself wide open for ad hom attack you loon. Do you remember Journalist Leib who met with Cordell Hull and received transcripts of Japanase naval dispaches revealing Pearl Harbor attack? No, he CLAIMED to have met him and received that info, nobody else was present and he only ever made that claim after Hull was safely dead, a sane person would suggest that he was making it up. If you believe Liebs crap, I've got a great story to tell you about the orgy I recently had with 14 supermodels, but I have to wait till they have all passed on before I can tell it. Now as I said before he (Leib) contacted immediately his personal friend and UP Washington chief Wilson and told him the whole story,minus the identity of his source.(Cordell Hull). So he went and told someone "I have a big story, but I can't tell you the source - print it" and his story wasn't accurate was it? But Wilson found the story ludicrous and refused to run it. But Leib managed to persuade his other friend,UP cable editor Harry Frantz,to transmit it on foreign cable. So,Leib's story,transmitted on foreign cable,created a front page banner Headline in the Sunday,Nov.30,Honolulu Advertiser: "JAPANASE MAY STRIKE OVER WEEKEND". The journey of this news started in Cordell Hull's office and ended in the front page of an Hawaian paper. and was not accurate, he made it up. The Japanese didn't strike that weekend, did they? Since you are apparently a big fan of reality and truth,you might want to visit your local library check out newspaper. But Liebs story was wrong, every day loons predict things that don't happen. It also begs the question why Kimmel didn't take a war warning seriously, when the local paper was running such stories. Do try to deal with reality. |
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"L'acrobat" wrote But Liebs story
was wrong, every day loons predict things that don't happen. It also begs the question why Kimmel didn't take a war warning seriously, when the local paper was running such stories. Do try to deal with reality. Maybe He was trusting much more to the Great Leaders in Washington than the loons who made up such unbelieveable news. Reality is still available in paper if you goto your library you can even touch it,literally, |
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Not backpedalling, you are a loon and your sources crap.
Yeah right. So a Peruvian minister and a conquered people (Korean "underground") together should have caused the USA to go to war? Obviously FDR administration did not want to go to war but Peruvians,Koreans,Dutch etc, all were setting traps for FDR to force him to enter war. I think something wrong in this picture,but I could not figure out what? Any help appreciated. would support France if it was invaded by the German Army") - gee he wouldn't have any reason to try to make himself good at the expense of the US and UK would he? 1,929 classified documents including secret correspondence between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. The secret corrospondence that according to declassified official documents never existed. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. IJN records only show that they were under orders to maintain radio silence but nothing about if these orders were followed all the times. Captain Ranneft,Dutch Naval Attache visited ONI twice just prior to attack, first on Dec.2 then on Dec.6. On his first visit Japanase Task force was in some spot midway between Japan and Hawai. On his last visit Task Force was 300-400 miles NW of Hawaii. So,without doubt ONI was following Japanese task force very closely. Not only military was intercepting IJN task force radio messages,but also civilians,for example an American liner in Pasific picked up heavy radio traffic from the task force and reported it to FBI. On military side,for example,A seaman in the intelligence office of the12th Naval District HQ in SF had intercepted Japan radio traffic and used it to plot accurately the position of the Task Force. He provided that info to his superiors and he was told by his superiors that his information was passed on to highest levels. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. 1)Sender of Nov,26 message which is the most revealing of all intercepted IJN dispatches was Yamamato and First air fleet was the intended recipient,not the other way around. 2)Task force never maintained 100% radio silence as explained above. They issued a war warning expecting all commanders to act on it, the competent ones did, the incompetent ones spent the rest of their lives peddling conspiracy nonsense to the gullible and stupid. As soon as they intercepted above referred Yamamato message revealing Pearl Harbor as target,they issued so called war warning . But there is a small problem,Yamamato message mentioned only one location as target,Pearl Harbor. But so called War Warning included almost every location in Pasific as possible targets EXCEPT ,well,Pearl Harbor. The Real goal of so called War Warning was not to warn possible targets,its goal was to deceive Japanese and make Japanese intel believe that US had no idea about Japanese intentions. The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you really should seek professional help. You know ,your outer space aliens,masquarading sometimes as Spanians,sometimes as German communists,sometimes as McCollum,sometimes as Islamic zealots. |
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![]() "Denyav" wrote in message ... Not backpedalling, you are a loon and your sources crap. Yeah right. So a Peruvian minister and a conquered people (Korean "underground") together should have caused the USA to go to war? Obviously FDR administration did not want to go to war but Peruvians,Koreans,Dutch etc, all were setting traps for FDR to force him to enter war. I think something wrong in this picture,but I could not figure out what? Any help appreciated. You have so far ignored all the help you have been given, work it out yourself. would support France if it was invaded by the German Army") - gee he wouldn't have any reason to try to make himself good at the expense of the US and UK would he? 1,929 classified documents including secret correspondence between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. The secret corrospondence that according to declassified official documents never existed. I note you avoid the point, he has already been shown to be a Nazi spy and a liar - why trust him now? Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. IJN records only show that they were under orders to maintain radio silence but nothing about if these orders were followed all the times. Hard to do otherwise when the radio is dismantled. Captain Ranneft,Dutch Naval Attache visited ONI twice just prior to attack, first on Dec.2 then on Dec.6. On his first visit Japanase Task force was in some spot midway between Japan and Hawai. On his last visit Task Force was 300-400 miles NW of Hawaii. So,without doubt ONI was following Japanese task force very closely. Not only military was intercepting IJN task force radio messages,but also civilians,for example an American liner in Pasific picked up heavy radio traffic from the task force and reported it to FBI. No, they picked up radio traffic, they have no idea where it came from, learn something about radio (try learning about 'skip distances') before you comment. On military side,for example,A seaman in the intelligence office of the12th Naval District HQ in SF had intercepted Japan radio traffic and used it to plot accurately the position of the Task Force. He provided that info to his superiors and he was told by his superiors that his information was passed on to highest levels. The Japanese themselves claim their fleet (Kido Butai) never sent a single message. They say they dismantled the telegraph sending devices so a message could not be sent. After the war, the Strategic Bombing Survey found the Japanese military's own after-action report, which credits the success of the attack to the fact that secrecy was maintained. Among the reasons why secrecy was maintained, radio silence comes first. He claims to have done that, no proof is offered. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. 1)Sender of Nov,26 message which is the most revealing of all intercepted IJN dispatches was Yamamato and First air fleet was the intended recipient,not the other way around. 2)Task force never maintained 100% radio silence as explained above. They issued a war warning expecting all commanders to act on it, the competent ones did, the incompetent ones spent the rest of their lives peddling conspiracy nonsense to the gullible and stupid. As soon as they intercepted above referred Yamamato message revealing Pearl Harbor as target,they issued so called war warning . The Japanese themselves claim their fleet (Kido Butai) never sent a single message. They say they dismantled the telegraph sending devices so a message could not be sent. But there is a small problem,Yamamato message mentioned only one location as target,Pearl Harbor. Nope. The Japanese themselves claim their fleet (Kido Butai) never sent a single message. They say they dismantled the telegraph sending devices so a message could not be sent. But so called War Warning included almost every location in Pasific as possible targets EXCEPT ,well,Pearl Harbor. A war warning does not have to specify every possible location of combat. Kimmel was incompetent, he got reamed for it, he deserved it. deal with it. The Real goal of so called War Warning was not to warn possible targets,its goal was to deceive Japanese and make Japanese intel believe that US had no idea about Japanese intentions. No, that is your opinion, try to distinguish between your opinion and reality - a war warning warns (oddly enough) of impending war, given the Brits at Taranto and the existence of aircraft carriers, a competent commander would have acted on that warning. Kimmel didn't. he paid for it. The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you really should seek professional help. You know ,your outer space aliens,masquarading sometimes as Spanians,sometimes as German communists,sometimes as McCollum,sometimes as Islamic zealots. Try reading some history rather than your comic books. |
#10
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Obviously FDR administration did not want to go to war but
Peruvians,Koreans,Dutch etc, all were setting traps for FDR to force him to enter war. I think something wrong in this picture,but I could not figure out what? Any help appreciated. You have so far ignored all the help you have been given, work it out You are pretty good in dodging questions.I note you avoid the point, he has already been shown to be a Nazi spy and a liar - why trust him now? So,He was a Nazi spy,other one was a Dutch naval officer,another one was a personal friend of Hull,another one was a Peruvian minister,another one was a Korean,another one was British double agent,another one was a Congressman and committee Chairman,another was a USN personal so the list goes on and on. So instead of asking the people not to believe witnessess and their documents,you should have asked Congress to pass a bill and make believing to the official versions mandatory.It would make everthing easier for you and me. Hard to do otherwise when the radio is dismantled. They were under order to keep radio silence not to dismantle radios,They used them occasionaly and their messages were intercepted. No, they picked up radio traffic, they have no idea where it came from, learn something about radio (try learning about 'skip distances') before you comment. Even the Sailor Z in intel department of 12th naval district plotted course of task force using radio intercepts. His true identity has been revealed in 80s and he gave an official testimony to Gov't investigator. The Japanese themselves claim their fleet (Kido Butai) never sent a single message. They say they dismantled the telegraph sending devices so a message could not be sent. After the war, the Strategic Bombing Survey found the Does the name McArthur remind you something about post WWII Japan? |
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