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Grob Twin Astir



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 30th 16, 10:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 107
Default Grob Twin Astir

....Actually, the Grob already has the half functioning elevator, but that is to prevent spins not stop PIO!
I'm sorry!😉 I agree with your post but had to take the bait.
  #2  
Old September 30th 16, 10:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Grob Twin Astir

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 02:30:40 -0700, dtarmichael wrote:

...Actually, the Grob already has the half functioning elevator, but
that is to prevent spins not stop PIO!

IME the elevator is reasonably functional on a G103 Twin 2 Acro but it
could certainly use a better rudder.

However it will spin: I did my annual spin checks one year in our one.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #3  
Old September 30th 16, 02:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Michael Opitz
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Posts: 318
Default Grob Twin Astir


IME the elevator is reasonably functional on a G103 Twin 2 Acro but it
could certainly use a better rudder.


Does it have the Z tape installed in front of the control surfaces as per
the Grob/Lindner optional service letter SL-12? If not, you might find
the effectiveness will be enhanced if you do install it. It works
wonders for the Twin Astir rudder... It is certainly easy and cheap
enough to try, and it is factory approved as well.....

RO

  #4  
Old October 1st 16, 12:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Grob Twin Astir

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 13:26:10 +0000, Michael Opitz wrote:

IME the elevator is reasonably functional on a G103 Twin 2 Acro but it
could certainly use a better rudder.


Does it have the Z tape installed in front of the control surfaces as
per the Grob/Lindner optional service letter SL-12? If not, you might
find the effectiveness will be enhanced if you do install it. It works
wonders for the Twin Astir rudder... It is certainly easy and cheap
enough to try, and it is factory approved as well.....

I don't recall seeing any zigzag strip in front of the rudder hinge. I'll
look next time I'm at the club and mention this where it may do some good
if it is not turbulated.

Thanks for the tip.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #5  
Old October 1st 16, 01:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Michael Opitz
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Posts: 318
Default Grob Twin Astir

At 23:25 30 September 2016, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 13:26:10 +0000, Michael Opitz wrote:

IME the elevator is reasonably functional on a G103 Twin 2

Acro but it
could certainly use a better rudder.


Does it have the Z tape installed in front of the control surfaces

as
per the Grob/Lindner optional service letter SL-12? If not, you

might
find the effectiveness will be enhanced if you do install it. It

works
wonders for the Twin Astir rudder... It is certainly easy and

cheap
enough to try, and it is factory approved as well.....

I don't recall seeing any zigzag strip in front of the rudder hinge.

I'll
look next time I'm at the club and mention this where it may do

some good
if it is not turbulated.

Thanks for the tip.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |



Martin,

You are welcome. If your Acro doesn't already have the Z tape
installed, I would be interested to hear your opinion as to if
the efficacy of the rudder is noticeably improved (or not) after the
installation. If the fin airfoil profiles of the Twin Astir and the Acro
are close, I suspect that you will notice a favorable improvement.

Good luck...

RO

  #6  
Old October 10th 16, 11:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Grob Twin Astir

On Sat, 01 Oct 2016 00:40:43 +0000, Michael Opitz wrote:

You are welcome. If your Acro doesn't already have the Z tape
installed, I would be interested to hear your opinion as to if the
efficacy of the rudder is noticeably improved (or not) after the
installation. If the fin airfoil profiles of the Twin Astir and the
Acro are close, I suspect that you will notice a favorable improvement.

I finally checked our Acro II last Sunday: as I thought there's no fin
turbulation on it, so I've passed your reference to the Lindner TN to the
relevent club committee member.

It turns out that our Acro now has a fairly low cockpit weight capacity.
On Sunday we were using it for trial flights but we had to temporarily
take one of our ASK-21s off scheduled training duties to fly a reasonably
heavy trial flighter. Some of our members would like to use it for mutual
XC flying since its a better XC glider than an ASK-21 and has a decent
SDI flight computer fitted. That said, our ASK-21s do routinely go XC on
good days with students who are close to soloing - an 80km o/r to HusBos
is favourite with our paid instructors.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #7  
Old October 11th 16, 03:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Michael Opitz
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Posts: 318
Default Grob Twin Astir

At 22:46 10 October 2016, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sat, 01 Oct 2016 00:40:43 +0000, Michael Opitz wrote:

You are welcome. If your Acro doesn't already have the Z tape
installed, I would be interested to hear your opinion as to if the
efficacy of the rudder is noticeably improved (or not) after the
installation. If the fin airfoil profiles of the Twin Astir and the
Acro are close, I suspect that you will notice a favorable

improvement.

I finally checked our Acro II last Sunday: as I thought there's no

fin
turbulation on it, so I've passed your reference to the Lindner TN

to the
relevent club committee member.

It turns out that our Acro now has a fairly low cockpit weight

capacity.
On Sunday we were using it for trial flights but we had to

temporarily
take one of our ASK-21s off scheduled training duties to fly a

reasonably
heavy trial flighter. Some of our members would like to use it for

mutual
XC flying since its a better XC glider than an ASK-21 and has a

decent
SDI flight computer fitted. That said, our ASK-21s do routinely go

XC on
good days with students who are close to soloing - an 80km o/r to

HusBos
is favourite with our paid instructors.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |



Martin,

Low seat load was the reason we sold our Acro several years ago.
If you have a lot of 2 seaters, you can schedule around it, but the
issue becomes a pain if you only have one or two 2-seaters to work
with.

If you can put up with the ground handling issues of a tail dragger,
and a little bit stiffer flight controls, you may find (as we have) that
the original Twin Astir gives a lot for the money invested. A lot of
them had been used as advanced XC trainers, and not for basic
training, so therefore minimal damage history.. This equates to a
retention of the already very high factory seat load of 242 Lbs/seat
plus another 22 Lbs in the baggage compartment. Some even have
water ballast. For XC training, the Twin 1 has a markedly slower
stall speed (with very effective trim) than the Twin II for better
thermalling performance. Best L/D is also ~4 points better than the
Twin II, so it is also noticeably better on the glides as well. For XC
training, I would take the Twin Astir over an Acro any day....IMHO

You can crash a Twin Astir, then add 40 Lbs of repair material and
still have a higher seat load than a NDH (No Damage History)
Twin II (let alone an Acro which will be 30-40 Lbs less than a
regular Twin II). Of course, these numbers are for the rest of the
world which doesn't have the RAF and BGA Twin II increased gross
weight agreements with Grob.....

RO




 




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