BRAC and Fort Rucker

"Lone Haranguer" wrote in message
...
Fuzzy Footie wrote:

John Hart wrote:

"Fuzzy Footie" wrote in message
...


Glad to hear it, but what's that got to do with the small on post
flight
area for first phase trainees at Fort Rucker? The post has worked for
years in trying to gain more restricted air space for training.

--
Fuzz



That's the point. It ain't all done in a small area in the first
phase. I
went through rotary wing primary training in Ft Woters, TX myself, then
after my first tour in 'Nam, I worked there three years as a primary
flight
instructor. To handle 200 or 300 primary students, a helicopter
primary
school uses up a hell of a lot more airspace than is available at any
post
with an active arty impact area. Got to keep'em clear of the GT line,
out
of the impact area, and completely away from such things as parachute
drops,
not to mention out of commercial air traffic, and seperated from each
other.
Might be able to do all that if you draw a 250 - 300 mile radius around
a
given place, and can control ALL the airspace from the surface upward.



Understood. It sounds like Fort Irwin is the place. Of course, all
those new WO's and Eltees would hate it being so far from Barstow. Of
course, they could make thunder runs to Las Vegas on the weekends.

It is clear there is no easy answer. Therefore, as the government is
wont to do, primary rotor wing training will stay at Rucker, probably
until the end of time.

--
Fuzz

I hear Yuma Proving Ground is on the closing list. Lots of room there
for flight training. A little toasty in summer.
LZ


Yes. However, it's a little too close to the southern international
boundry. Might give rise to an international incident or two, should a
student pilot inadvertantly meander to the south of the line!

"John Hart" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Lone Haranguer" wrote in message
...
Fuzzy Footie wrote:

John Hart wrote:

"Fuzzy Footie" wrote in message
...


Glad to hear it, but what's that got to do with the small on post
flight
area for first phase trainees at Fort Rucker? The post has worked
for
years in trying to gain more restricted air space for training.

--
Fuzz



That's the point. It ain't all done in a small area in the first
phase. I
went through rotary wing primary training in Ft Woters, TX myself,
then
after my first tour in 'Nam, I worked there three years as a primary
flight
instructor. To handle 200 or 300 primary students, a helicopter
primary
school uses up a hell of a lot more airspace than is available at any
post
with an active arty impact area. Got to keep'em clear of the GT
line,
out
of the impact area, and completely away from such things as parachute
drops,
not to mention out of commercial air traffic, and seperated from each
other.
Might be able to do all that if you draw a 250 - 300 mile radius
around
a
given place, and can control ALL the airspace from the surface
upward.



Understood. It sounds like Fort Irwin is the place. Of course, all
those new WO's and Eltees would hate it being so far from Barstow. Of
course, they could make thunder runs to Las Vegas on the weekends.

It is clear there is no easy answer. Therefore, as the government is
wont to do, primary rotor wing training will stay at Rucker, probably
until the end of time.

--
Fuzz

I hear Yuma Proving Ground is on the closing list. Lots of room there
for flight training. A little toasty in summer.
LZ


Yes. However, it's a little too close to the southern international
boundry. Might give rise to an international incident or two, should a
student pilot inadvertantly meander to the south of the line!

I recall my brother relating a story of one of his classmates (this would
have been about 1970) getting a bit turned around on a flight and finally
landing his TH-55 and walking to a nearby farmhouse to ask where the heck he
was; he supposedly did so still wearing his helmet with the visor down...one
can only wonder what the lady's reaction to that sight was.

Brooks

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"John Hart" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Lone Haranguer" wrote in message
...

Fuzzy Footie wrote:


John Hart wrote:


"Fuzzy Footie" wrote in message
...


Glad to hear it, but what's that got to do with the small on post

flight

area for first phase trainees at Fort Rucker? The post has worked

for

years in trying to gain more restricted air space for training.

--
Fuzz



That's the point. It ain't all done in a small area in the first
phase. I
went through rotary wing primary training in Ft Woters, TX myself,

then

after my first tour in 'Nam, I worked there three years as a primary
flight
instructor. To handle 200 or 300 primary students, a helicopter

primary

school uses up a hell of a lot more airspace than is available at any
post
with an active arty impact area. Got to keep'em clear of the GT

line,

out
of the impact area, and completely away from such things as parachute
drops,
not to mention out of commercial air traffic, and seperated from each
other.
Might be able to do all that if you draw a 250 - 300 mile radius

around

a

given place, and can control ALL the airspace from the surface

upward.


Understood. It sounds like Fort Irwin is the place. Of course, all
those new WO's and Eltees would hate it being so far from Barstow. Of
course, they could make thunder runs to Las Vegas on the weekends.

It is clear there is no easy answer. Therefore, as the government is
wont to do, primary rotor wing training will stay at Rucker, probably
until the end of time.

--
Fuzz

I hear Yuma Proving Ground is on the closing list. Lots of room there
for flight training. A little toasty in summer.
LZ


Yes. However, it's a little too close to the southern international
boundry. Might give rise to an international incident or two, should a
student pilot inadvertantly meander to the south of the line!


I recall my brother relating a story of one of his classmates (this would
have been about 1970) getting a bit turned around on a flight and finally
landing his TH-55 and walking to a nearby farmhouse to ask where the heck he
was; he supposedly did so still wearing his helmet with the visor down...one
can only wonder what the lady's reaction to that sight was.

Brooks

In Germany the Army pilots used "roadmap navigation". They just got low
enough to read the name of the town posted on the outskirts.

They didn't have water towers like ours.
LZ

"Lone Haranguer" wrote in message
...
In Germany the Army pilots used "roadmap navigation". They just got low
enough to read the name of the town posted on the outskirts.

They didn't have water towers like ours.
LZ


Not only in Germany, but all over the world where I have been stationed and
flew helicopters. Nothing like having a positive fix on your location.
John Hart

John Hart wrote in response to:

In Germany the Army pilots used "roadmap navigation". They just got low
enough to read the name of the town posted on the outskirts.

the following:
Not only in Germany, but all over the world where I have been stationed and
flew helicopters. Nothing like having a positive fix on your location.

Doesn't work well in the central US, especially the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas,
Oklahoma. All the small towns are named "Co-Op"

"Hang a right at the big tombstone on top of the cemetary hill, your target is
the warehouse one block north of the Dairy Queen. Exit the target area over the
baseball diamond...."
honest to Gawd quote from a TacEval briefing, circa 1969, of course their chart
and flight plan were outstanding

oxmoron1
MFE

"OXMORON1" wrote in message
...
John Hart wrote in response to:

In Germany the Army pilots used "roadmap navigation". They just got low
enough to read the name of the town posted on the outskirts.

the following:
Not only in Germany, but all over the world where I have been stationed
and
flew helicopters. Nothing like having a positive fix on your location.

Doesn't work well in the central US, especially the Dakotas, Nebraska,
Kansas,
Oklahoma. All the small towns are named "Co-Op"

"Hang a right at the big tombstone on top of the cemetary hill, your
target is
the warehouse one block north of the Dairy Queen. Exit the target area
over the
baseball diamond...."
honest to Gawd quote from a TacEval briefing, circa 1969, of course their
chart
and flight plan were outstanding

Didn't always work too well in Honduras, either. One of TWA's (Teenie Weenie
Airlines, as we referred to the four aircraft UH-1H detachment supporting
our operation in 87-88) missed the base camp on a flight back from what is
now known as Soto Cano and kept happily flying eastward. The FUSA aviation
advisor who was on-hand shook his head and told me if they had not run short
of fuel and had to set down, they'd have made the Nicaraguan border in about
another ten to twenty miles--and 1988 was not a good time for that kind of
thing to happen.

Brooks


oxmoron1
MFE

On 22 Jun 2004 13:49:10 GMT, (OXMORON1) wrote:

John Hart wrote in response to:

In Germany the Army pilots used "roadmap navigation". They just got low
enough to read the name of the town posted on the outskirts.

the following:
Not only in Germany, but all over the world where I have been stationed and
flew helicopters. Nothing like having a positive fix on your location.

Doesn't work well in the central US, especially the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas,
Oklahoma. All the small towns are named "Co-Op"

"Hang a right at the big tombstone on top of the cemetary hill, your target is
the warehouse one block north of the Dairy Queen. Exit the target area over the
baseball diamond...."
honest to Gawd quote from a TacEval briefing, circa 1969, of course their chart
and flight plan were outstanding


IFR = "I Follow Roads".

John Hairell )