Low cost ADS-B Options

On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 11:02:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:50:48 PM UTC-7, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:47:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 11:22:22 PM UTC-6, Mike Schumann wrote:
I spent a day at Oshkosh last Monday and had a chance to talk to Trig about their ADS-B plans.

The Trig TT22 Mode S Transponder is currently shipping and supports 1090ES ADS-B Out, if it is connected to an approved WAAS GPS position source. Up to now, approved GPS sources have been quite expensive.

The good news is that around Christmas, Trig is going to start shipping their new, as yet unannounced, TN72 GPS position source. I had a chance to see a prototype. It easily fits in the palm of your hand, weighs about 100 grams, and uses minimal power. While Trig wouldn't commit to a price, the people I talked to said that the unit would sell for less than $600.

Couple this with an ADS-B receiver ($500 - $850), an iPhone, iPad, or Android device, and a low cost app like Foreflight, etc., and you will have a full blown collision avoidance system that will accurately display and warn you about all other ADS-B and/or Transponder equipped aircraft in your vicinity. In addition you will be visible to all TCAS equipped commercial aircraft.

Trig indicated that their distributors have significant discounts available of groups and clubs that organize a volume purchase.

This is a great solution for glider pilots who fly near metropolitan airports and are mainly concerned about collision threats with other GA or commercial aircraft.

Get your checkbooks ready.

I appreciate the thread, and I'm trying to sort this out a little better. So, according to the Trig marketing info, 'the TN72 GPS receiver is a fully certified product (FAA TSO-C199) designed for voluntary equipage and use in areas outside of designated or mandated ADS-B airspace.' So when coupled to a Trig T22 transponder, it will transmit ADS-B out info to contribute to your being seen by others. Sounds good, but as of right now, as the TN72 is not a TSO-C145C GPS receiver, it may not qualify as an FAA certified ADS-B OUT device, and therefore may disqualify one from obtaining traffic services (TIS-B) and weather services (FIS-B) over your separate, even pricier, ADS-B IN setup?

Charlie Gillespie

Charlie, I suggest you read earlier posts by Darryl. Please do a search on this topic and read his posts. Your post suggests you would benefit from it and I am writing this as an encouragement not criticism. This is a complex problem and I can tell you from experience that even a fully certified system may not work in a glider, especially certified antennas. They are very old designs and they are not designed to provide proper signal when aircraft is constantly maneuvering (thermalling) with 45 deg bank angle.

Good point, Andrzej. The FAA has an online Public ADS-B Performance Report (PAPR) query for operators to find out how their equipment performs at a specified time/date (https://adsbperformance.faa.gov/PAPRRequest.aspx). I'd be curious to hear feedback from general aviation pilots, and perhaps some Stemme drivers with ADS-B, as to how their gear is functioning.

CG

I have a Phoenix Motorglider with a Dynon Skyview system with 2020 compliant ADS-B OUT. This system uses an OEM version of the Trig TT-22 transponder and a GPS source that is rumored to be the same pedigree as the new TN-72 Trig GPS source.

I have run the FAA performance report for numerous flights and the system is working flawlessly. The only hiccup is that most of the performance reports, but not all, indicate that the Emitter Type is "Parachutist / Skydiver", not "Glider", which is how the Dynon is configured.

It is not clear if this is a Dynon or FAA problem. There are a number of Phoenix owners who have identified this problem and we are currently working with Dynon and the FAA to get this fixed.

I suspect that the Phoenix Motorglider community constitutes the vast majority of gliders that are currently flying with ADS-B OUT equipment. If anyone else out there has a glider with ADS-B OUT currently installed, we would be very interested in seeing your FAA Performance report, which would help us understand if this is a Dynon or FAA issue.

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 8:52:50 AM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 11:02:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 5:50:48 PM UTC-7, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:47:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 11:22:22 PM UTC-6, Mike Schumann wrote:
I spent a day at Oshkosh last Monday and had a chance to talk to Trig about their ADS-B plans.

The Trig TT22 Mode S Transponder is currently shipping and supports 1090ES ADS-B Out, if it is connected to an approved WAAS GPS position source. Up to now, approved GPS sources have been quite expensive.

The good news is that around Christmas, Trig is going to start shipping their new, as yet unannounced, TN72 GPS position source. I had a chance to see a prototype. It easily fits in the palm of your hand, weighs about 100 grams, and uses minimal power. While Trig wouldn't commit to a price, the people I talked to said that the unit would sell for less than $600..

Couple this with an ADS-B receiver ($500 - $850), an iPhone, iPad, or Android device, and a low cost app like Foreflight, etc., and you will have a full blown collision avoidance system that will accurately display and warn you about all other ADS-B and/or Transponder equipped aircraft in your vicinity. In addition you will be visible to all TCAS equipped commercial aircraft.

Trig indicated that their distributors have significant discounts available of groups and clubs that organize a volume purchase.

This is a great solution for glider pilots who fly near metropolitan airports and are mainly concerned about collision threats with other GA or commercial aircraft.

Get your checkbooks ready.

I appreciate the thread, and I'm trying to sort this out a little better. So, according to the Trig marketing info, 'the TN72 GPS receiver is a fully certified product (FAA TSO-C199) designed for voluntary equipage and use in areas outside of designated or mandated ADS-B airspace.' So when coupled to a Trig T22 transponder, it will transmit ADS-B out info to contribute to your being seen by others. Sounds good, but as of right now, as the TN72 is not a TSO-C145C GPS receiver, it may not qualify as an FAA certified ADS-B OUT device, and therefore may disqualify one from obtaining traffic services (TIS-B) and weather services (FIS-B) over your separate, even pricier, ADS-B IN setup?

Charlie Gillespie

Charlie, I suggest you read earlier posts by Darryl. Please do a search on this topic and read his posts. Your post suggests you would benefit from it and I am writing this as an encouragement not criticism. This is a complex problem and I can tell you from experience that even a fully certified system may not work in a glider, especially certified antennas. They are very old designs and they are not designed to provide proper signal when aircraft is constantly maneuvering (thermalling) with 45 deg bank angle.

Good point, Andrzej. The FAA has an online Public ADS-B Performance Report (PAPR) query for operators to find out how their equipment performs at a specified time/date (https://adsbperformance.faa.gov/PAPRRequest.aspx). I'd be curious to hear feedback from general aviation pilots, and perhaps some Stemme drivers with ADS-B, as to how their gear is functioning.

CG

I have a Phoenix Motorglider with a Dynon Skyview system with 2020 compliant ADS-B OUT. This system uses an OEM version of the Trig TT-22 transponder and a GPS source that is rumored to be the same pedigree as the new TN-72 Trig GPS source.

I have run the FAA performance report for numerous flights and the system is working flawlessly. The only hiccup is that most of the performance reports, but not all, indicate that the Emitter Type is "Parachutist / Skydiver", not "Glider", which is how the Dynon is configured.

It is not clear if this is a Dynon or FAA problem. There are a number of Phoenix owners who have identified this problem and we are currently working with Dynon and the FAA to get this fixed.

I suspect that the Phoenix Motorglider community constitutes the vast majority of gliders that are currently flying with ADS-B OUT equipment. If anyone else out there has a glider with ADS-B OUT currently installed, we would be very interested in seeing your FAA Performance report, which would help us understand if this is a Dynon or FAA issue.

Same issue with Trig.