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Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 3rd 17, 07:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
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Posts: 608
Default Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

Most runway lights I know of are designed to break off at the base when struck. Putting a reinforced structure over them seems problematic, particularly if you strike them from the side with, say, the fuselage or a power plane hooks the loop with a wheel. You also might want to see if the FAA has any requirements about what sorts of obstructions are permitted near a runway..

I like the system Rex Mayes installed at Montague, CA. Each light was put on a simple pivot slightly below ground level and encased with an irrigation box with a notch cut in the center of the long edge of the cover for the light post to fit through such that the closed cover holds the light in the up position. It covers the retracted light completely and is flush with the ground when the light is retracted.

You put the lights down at the beginning of operations and put them back up at the end of the flying day - before dusk of course. Changing configurations takes about as long as it takes two people to walk the length of runway you want clear. Generally this is only a few hundred feet if you are concerned about wing drops on takeoff, but may include the primary rollout area as well.

Here's an example of the irrigation box:

http://tinyurl.com/hkxoqa6

Hope that helps.

Andy Blackburn
9B

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 5:53:09 AM UTC-8, wrote:
My club recently had its first wingtip damage from a runway light. These lights stick up about a foot or so and are sometimes hard to avoid.

What solutions have other soaring clubs found to deal with them?

I was thinking that it maybe a good idea to put a deflector in front of the lights. If the wing is going to hit, it would hopefully deflect the wing up and over the light.
I was hoping the right design might not obscure the light any more than a tall weed. What are chances of getting something like this approved or accepted by either an airport authority or the FAA?

My first two concepts we
1. form a steel rod that goes over the light, and then front and back ends form spikes that could be hammered into the ground.
2. A wedge shaped cut plexiglass/acrylic sheet that the light could pass through. The bottom would have flanges heat formed to a allow it to be secured to the ground.

Please post any feedback or thoughts on if there is some solution to help protect glider wings.

I made simple sketches here, Please forgive the really crude drawings:

https://docs.google.com/presentation...it?usp=sharing

a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1DhfbsEk49m-3LS-Vzs8YO-487Gv1YDjZNICBma72tlE/edit?usp=sharing"concept drawings/a

Chris

  #2  
Old January 3rd 17, 07:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
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Posts: 608
Default Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

Correction, I mistyped - the notch is in the center of the edge of the box along the long axis - this gives you about 18 inches of light height you can accommodate.

9B

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 11:34:59 PM UTC-8, Andy Blackburn wrote:
Most runway lights I know of are designed to break off at the base when struck. Putting a reinforced structure over them seems problematic, particularly if you strike them from the side with, say, the fuselage or a power plane hooks the loop with a wheel. You also might want to see if the FAA has any requirements about what sorts of obstructions are permitted near a runway.

I like the system Rex Mayes installed at Montague, CA. Each light was put on a simple pivot slightly below ground level and encased with an irrigation box with a notch cut in the center of the long edge of the cover for the light post to fit through such that the closed cover holds the light in the up position. It covers the retracted light completely and is flush with the ground when the light is retracted.

You put the lights down at the beginning of operations and put them back up at the end of the flying day - before dusk of course. Changing configurations takes about as long as it takes two people to walk the length of runway you want clear. Generally this is only a few hundred feet if you are concerned about wing drops on takeoff, but may include the primary rollout area as well.

Here's an example of the irrigation box:

http://tinyurl.com/hkxoqa6

Hope that helps.

Andy Blackburn
9B

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 5:53:09 AM UTC-8, wrote:
My club recently had its first wingtip damage from a runway light. These lights stick up about a foot or so and are sometimes hard to avoid.

What solutions have other soaring clubs found to deal with them?

I was thinking that it maybe a good idea to put a deflector in front of the lights. If the wing is going to hit, it would hopefully deflect the wing up and over the light.
I was hoping the right design might not obscure the light any more than a tall weed. What are chances of getting something like this approved or accepted by either an airport authority or the FAA?

My first two concepts we
1. form a steel rod that goes over the light, and then front and back ends form spikes that could be hammered into the ground.
2. A wedge shaped cut plexiglass/acrylic sheet that the light could pass through. The bottom would have flanges heat formed to a allow it to be secured to the ground.

Please post any feedback or thoughts on if there is some solution to help protect glider wings.

I made simple sketches here, Please forgive the really crude drawings:

https://docs.google.com/presentation...it?usp=sharing

a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1DhfbsEk49m-3LS-Vzs8YO-487Gv1YDjZNICBma72tlE/edit?usp=sharing"concept drawings/a

Chris

  #3  
Old January 3rd 17, 07:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

They do make flush runway lights, last time I looked it was about $500 per light though. As lights get broken work with airport management to get them replaced with flush mounted lights. Granted a slow developing solution, but should be part of the solution plan along with others mentioned above.
  #4  
Old January 3rd 17, 03:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_5_]
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Posts: 1,965
Default Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

Flush light won't work so well we're it snows.

I used to joke that one reason I landed out so much was because airport's were so dangerous. Airplanes, runway lights, and other hazards are everywhere at municipal airports that just don't exist in a nice farmer's field.

I was kidding...sorta
  #5  
Old January 3rd 17, 03:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

Snow? Forgot about that stuff. That is the white stuff, I see it from the air when flying over the mountains. I did grow up in Idaho, skiing, climbing..etc. But I guess the last 30 years living in San Diego, I forgot about the effects of weather below 65 degrees.

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 7:12:35 AM UTC-8, Tony wrote:
Flush light won't work so well we're it snows.

I used to joke that one reason I landed out so much was because airport's were so dangerous. Airplanes, runway lights, and other hazards are everywhere at municipal airports that just don't exist in a nice farmer's field.

I was kidding...sorta

  #6  
Old January 3rd 17, 06:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobW
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Posts: 504
Default Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

On 1/3/2017 8:12 AM, Tony wrote:

I used to joke that one reason I landed out so much was because airports
were so dangerous. Airplanes, runway lights, and other hazards are
everywhere at municipal airports that just don't exist in a nice farmer's
field.

I was kidding...sorta


Heh...historically, runways - like roads - exert a powerful pull on lower-time
glider pilots when it comes to "choosing an ideal XC landing field." When I
edited my club's monthly newsletter for a number of years, a continual safety
drumbeat was words to the effect: the only certain thing about an active
(paved) runway (designed for powerplanes) is a (presumably) known (relatively)
decent surface. Particularly in the high plains and intermountain west, it's
easy to find narrow paved strips with nearby lurking light standards, each and
every one salivating at the thought of glider wingtips. "Runway complacence"
definitely not recommended!

Bob W.
  #7  
Old January 3rd 17, 07:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 23
Default Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

Years ago I operated a Nimbus 3 off of the little airport at Montague. The runway lights had claimed at least two glider wing kills that I knew of and my long wings were at high risk. I purchased some 6 inch diameter PVC pipe and split some 8 foot sections in half with a table saw. I would shove the near side end into the gravel and lay the far side end on top of the light. It worked for me on the one occasion I needed it and only left a slight scuff on the bottom of the wing. I covered four lights on each side in the probable impact zone and had my wing runner remove them after launch. Cheap and easy. I know others borrowed them and I think they helped. Rex Mayes came along later and did it the right way, but not many small airport FBO's are also the glider operation.
Dale
  #8  
Old January 3rd 17, 11:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Haeh
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Posts: 167
Default Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

The maximum spacing between runway edge lights is 200'. Airport operators

are unlikely to spend the extra money for tighter spacing.

200' hopefully is enough space to stop the glider from a speed where you
still
have aerodynamic control.

On your first glider landing on pavement you will discover a longer ground

roll, especially if there's a downhill gradient.

I was thinking I could steer the glider off between the lights but ran out
of
energy as the slow speed passing the last light was not enough to get off
the
side.

But there's other nasty stuff that can lurk alongside paved runways.

Those with better skills can turn off onto a taxiway - watch out for props.


Better to stop on the runway and assess where you can safely pull off the
glider.

It helps to know the local airports and which ones are not suitable.



  #9  
Old January 3rd 17, 06:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 133
Default Wingtip to Runway light protector Concepts

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 2:34:59 AM UTC-5, Andy Blackburn wrote:
Most runway lights I know of are designed to break off at the base when struck.


Yes these are designed to break off at the base, but apparently not until they have done major damage to a glider wing. The yield strength must be pretty high.

I stumbled across this in AC 150/5345-46D - not sure it is for this type fixture but if true then our lights are ~1 foot tall, so maybe they are required to withstand 150lbs. They might not yield until 500lbs! That is a lot of force for a point of contact.

3.4.2.1. Yield Device.
a. Each elevated light fixture must have a yield point near the point or position where the light attaches to the base plate or mounting stake. The yield point must be no more than 1-1/2 inches (38.10 mm) above grade, must give way before any other part of the fixture is damaged, and must withstand a bending moment of 150 foot-pounds (203 Newton-meters (N-m) without failure.

(1) This yield point must also separate cleanly from the mounting system before the bending moment reaches 500 foot-pounds (678 N-m).
 




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