First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:56:16 PM UTC-8, Sarah wrote:
http://www.trig-avionics.com/new-tn7...at-flyer-live/

This should be available Q1 2017 - it's already popping up on aircraftSpruce & the like, at a sub- $400 price. Quite interesting for those of us with Trig transponders.

In the US, all airspace is "outside of designated ADS-B out airspace" for gliders. Or motorgliders I presume.

What are the consequences of having a Trig 21 vs 22, in both the TABS regulations and pure functionality? I understand that a Trig 21 may not meet TABS regulations, if there ever comes to be some. But will it actually function, if wired to the Trig TN72 source?

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 5:56:54 PM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:56:16 PM UTC-8, Sarah wrote:
http://www.trig-avionics.com/new-tn7...at-flyer-live/

This should be available Q1 2017 - it's already popping up on aircraftSpruce & the like, at a sub- $400 price. Quite interesting for those of us with Trig transponders.

In the US, all airspace is "outside of designated ADS-B out airspace" for gliders. Or motorgliders I presume.

What are the consequences of having a Trig 21 vs 22, in both the TABS regulations and pure functionality? I understand that a Trig 21 may not meet TABS regulations, if there ever comes to be some. But will it actually function, if wired to the Trig TN72 source?

Probably none. Except visits from the FCC & airport police.

I will have the TN72 in the first quarter of 2017 per the distributor.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 6:56:54 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:56:16 PM UTC-8, Sarah wrote:
http://www.trig-avionics.com/new-tn7...at-flyer-live/

This should be available Q1 2017 - it's already popping up on aircraftSpruce & the like, at a sub- $400 price. Quite interesting for those of us with Trig transponders.

In the US, all airspace is "outside of designated ADS-B out airspace" for gliders. Or motorgliders I presume.

What are the consequences of having a Trig 21 vs 22, in both the TABS regulations and pure functionality? I understand that a Trig 21 may not meet TABS regulations, if there ever comes to be some. But will it actually function, if wired to the Trig TN72 source?

I had inquired directly with Trig on the potential use of the TT21 and the TN72 and this was their response in a message back to me on Dec 7th...

"Thank you for your interest in our TN72 GPS receiver.

The TN72 is compatible with your TT21 transponder and is an ideal choice for your glider.
TABS exists to allow exempt aircraft like yours to participate in ADS-B.
Your TT21 transponder exceeds the technical requirements of TABS and so does not require upgrading.

The TN72 will be shipping in early 2017 and will be available through all Trig dealers."

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 6:28:26 AM UTC-8, Renny wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 6:56:54 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:56:16 PM UTC-8, Sarah wrote:
http://www.trig-avionics.com/new-tn7...at-flyer-live/

This should be available Q1 2017 - it's already popping up on aircraftSpruce & the like, at a sub- $400 price. Quite interesting for those of us with Trig transponders.

In the US, all airspace is "outside of designated ADS-B out airspace" for gliders. Or motorgliders I presume.

What are the consequences of having a Trig 21 vs 22, in both the TABS regulations and pure functionality? I understand that a Trig 21 may not meet TABS regulations, if there ever comes to be some. But will it actually function, if wired to the Trig TN72 source?

I had inquired directly with Trig on the potential use of the TT21 and the TN72 and this was their response in a message back to me on Dec 7th...

"Thank you for your interest in our TN72 GPS receiver.

The TN72 is compatible with your TT21 transponder and is an ideal choice for your glider.
TABS exists to allow exempt aircraft like yours to participate in ADS-B.
Your TT21 transponder exceeds the technical requirements of TABS and so does not require upgrading.

The TN72 will be shipping in early 2017 and will be available through all Trig dealers."

Renny, thanks. That makes uncommon sense for the rule makers. What happens on a Flarm display that sees both a Flarm and an ADS-B return from a glider? Is Flarm capable of disambiguating the result?

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 9:12:19 AM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 6:28:26 AM UTC-8, Renny wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 6:56:54 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:56:16 PM UTC-8, Sarah wrote:
http://www.trig-avionics.com/new-tn7...at-flyer-live/

This should be available Q1 2017 - it's already popping up on aircraftSpruce & the like, at a sub- $400 price. Quite interesting for those of us with Trig transponders.

In the US, all airspace is "outside of designated ADS-B out airspace" for gliders. Or motorgliders I presume.

What are the consequences of having a Trig 21 vs 22, in both the TABS regulations and pure functionality? I understand that a Trig 21 may not meet TABS regulations, if there ever comes to be some. But will it actually function, if wired to the Trig TN72 source?

I had inquired directly with Trig on the potential use of the TT21 and the TN72 and this was their response in a message back to me on Dec 7th...

"Thank you for your interest in our TN72 GPS receiver.

The TN72 is compatible with your TT21 transponder and is an ideal choice for your glider.
TABS exists to allow exempt aircraft like yours to participate in ADS-B..
Your TT21 transponder exceeds the technical requirements of TABS and so does not require upgrading.

The TN72 will be shipping in early 2017 and will be available through all Trig dealers."

Renny, thanks. That makes uncommon sense for the rule makers. What happens on a Flarm display that sees both a Flarm and an ADS-B return from a glider? Is Flarm capable of disambiguating the result?

PowerFLARM knows to de-duplicate those targets... if you have properly set up the PowerFLARM to use the ICAO address of your glider, that way the FLARM and ADS-B Out signals will have the same ICAO aircraft address and a receiving PowerFLARM device knows its the same aircraft. That's already used today to suppress Mode-S PCAS alerts for a target glider with Mode-S and PowerFLARM. And that's why PowerFLARM cannot suppress PCAS alerts as well for targets that have Mode C transponders (Mode C does not transmit an ICAO address).

Am Mittwoch, 4. Januar 2017 18:12:19 UTC+1 schrieb jfitch:


... That makes uncommon sense for the rule makers. What happens on a Flarm display that sees both a Flarm and an ADS-B return from a glider? Is Flarm capable of disambiguating the result?

Only if the FLARM ID is set to ICAO-32-bit-address used for the ADS-B out.

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 7:56:54 PM UTC-6, jfitch wrote:

What are the consequences of having a Trig 21 vs 22, in both the TABS regulations and pure functionality? I understand that a Trig 21 may not meet TABS regulations, if there ever comes to be some. But will it actually function, if wired to the Trig TN72 source?

I would think either would be fine. They are almost identical except in power output. There are actually no TABS regulations other than the TSO.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.227

goes on and on about UAT and TSO-166 specifications but doesn't mention TABS.

We will see when more information comes out of Trig. For instance - It would be really nice if the required antenna wasn't larger than the TN72 and more expensive.

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 6:46:25 AM UTC-8, Sarah wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 7:56:54 PM UTC-6, jfitch wrote:

What are the consequences of having a Trig 21 vs 22, in both the TABS regulations and pure functionality? I understand that a Trig 21 may not meet TABS regulations, if there ever comes to be some. But will it actually function, if wired to the Trig TN72 source?

I would think either would be fine. They are almost identical except in power output. There are actually no TABS regulations other than the TSO.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.227

goes on and on about UAT and TSO-166 specifications but doesn't mention TABS.

We will see when more information comes out of Trig. For instance - It would be really nice if the required antenna wasn't larger than the TN72 and more expensive.

Available for preorder

http://www.craggyaero.com/nav_com.htm

First quarter of 2017

More information to follow on website

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

TSO-C166 *is* TABS.

Some of the rest of this stuff has been discussed on r.a.s. before.

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 10:50:13 AM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
TSO-C166 *is* TABS.

Some of the rest of this stuff has been discussed on r.a.s. before.

What hasn't been discussed on ras before? It is January.

And the TN72 is new, $400 and TSO'd source for ADSB-out.
They were tricky, flipping the digits upside down.

TSO-C199 != TSO-C166