Scoring Discussion

We used the SSA drop option it in Ionia in 2011 I believe (maybe it was 2012). People liked it but Ionia often has such challenging weather that we don't get enough soaring in to drop days. Drop races are common in sailing up to the WC level. It is called a "throw out." It kicks in only after a certain number of valid races have been completed (usually six). It makes good sense because in sailing it is extremely difficult to be consistent and (like gliding at the WGC level) other gliders (gaggle) have a big impact on your daily destiny.

Risk (scoring) is critical here at the WGC (A) start time and B) using or not using the gaggle). But the drop day probably would not directly prevent the gaggles which is the number one concern/problem here. Especially during the pre-start gaggle stage which can be well over an hour (sometimes 2+) of continuous "full attention."

The reason that it is important to constantly be with the gaggle (same position and most importantly altitude) is so that we are always in a position to start evenly with them. This ebbs and flows and people are flighting (changing circle path) to gain 300 ft again and again in order to be near the top of each thermal, biding their time to start...

For what it's worth I'm not worried about my landout day here. I did my best and broke it off and landed safely at the right time. I learned more from that landout than it really cost me. I flew that task virtually alone, well of the front of the main gaggle (TAT) except for the Czechs who came with me from 1-2 back of my start until I was able to get away. P7 and the Brits caught me at TP2 but so did not know how far the went into TP1 so we immediately split up. The goal for me that day was to hope that the main gaggle waited too long and that the day died while they were still on course.. This was showing some signs of coming true that afternoon which was why I pushed to get back S quickly, that meant that I had to do more than just touch the final TP area. That was OK because this meant I could utilize the best late day thermal source in the entire task area, the Worby mountains.. If I would have found one weak climb (usually a fairly good is found here), I would have had 900+ points (133kph). But I was slightly too low to connect easily or simply missed. Oh well.

A throw out might be a nice way of making the results a little closer overall, and "might" allow for a little more risk taking. That might be a nice change in dynamics. I think some changes here would be healthy.

Another note is that the 15m gaggle basically stayed intact yesterday despite the TAT and the very weak weather...

I bet even a MAT task would not have separated them yesterday either. This is a real part of the game (risk management from a scoring perspective...)

I look forward to hearing the results of the next IGC meeting in February. I'm sure all of this will be discussed. This event format can and should be improved.

Sean
7T

On Saturday, January 21, 2017 at 3:21:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We used the SSA drop option it in Ionia in 2011 I believe (maybe it was 2012). People liked it but Ionia often has such challenging weather that we don't get enough soaring in to drop days. Drop races are common in sailing up to the WC level. It is called a "throw out." It kicks in only after a certain number of valid races have been completed (usually six). It makes good sense because in sailing it is extremely difficult to be consistent and (like gliding at the WGC level) other gliders (gaggle) have a big impact on your daily destiny.

Risk (scoring) is critical here at the WGC (A) start time and B) using or not using the gaggle). But the drop day probably would not directly prevent the gaggles which is the number one concern/problem here. Especially during the pre-start gaggle stage which can be well over an hour (sometimes 2+) of continuous "full attention."

The reason that it is important to constantly be with the gaggle (same position and most importantly altitude) is so that we are always in a position to start evenly with them. This ebbs and flows and people are flighting (changing circle path) to gain 300 ft again and again in order to be near the top of each thermal, biding their time to start...

For what it's worth I'm not worried about my landout day here. I did my best and broke it off and landed safely at the right time. I learned more from that landout than it really cost me. I flew that task virtually alone, well of the front of the main gaggle (TAT) except for the Czechs who came with me from 1-2 back of my start until I was able to get away. P7 and the Brits caught me at TP2 but so did not know how far the went into TP1 so we immediately split up. The goal for me that day was to hope that the main gaggle waited too long and that the day died while they were still on course. This was showing some signs of coming true that afternoon which was why I pushed to get back S quickly, that meant that I had to do more than just touch the final TP area. That was OK because this meant I could utilize the best late day thermal source in the entire task area, the Worby mountains. If I would have found one weak climb (usually a fairly good is found here), I would have had 900+ points (133kph). But I was slightly too low to connect easily or simply missed. Oh well.

A throw out might be a nice way of making the results a little closer overall, and "might" allow for a little more risk taking. That might be a nice change in dynamics. I think some changes here would be healthy.

Another note is that the 15m gaggle basically stayed intact yesterday despite the TAT and the very weak weather...

I bet even a MAT task would not have separated them yesterday either. This is a real part of the game (risk management from a scoring perspective....)

I look forward to hearing the results of the next IGC meeting in February.. I'm sure all of this will be discussed. This event format can and should be improved.

Sean
7T

Sean-
Was tracking information at Benalla real time for you guys or delayed like what I saw from here?
Thanks
UH

The trackers were usually delayed 15 minutes. Early on, for the first several racing tasks, it was 10. Then they seemed to stay with 15 minutes. JG may have more info from a team captain perspective regarding any debate around this. Several teams were rumored (unconfirmed and kept fairly secret) to have some level of Flarm radar. We utilized the delayed tracker info as much as we could (Team USA) but didn't have any functioning flarm radar for the event. I'm fine with that as it's a massive PITA for JG to manage and he had a huge amount on his plate just as the team Captain (he did a fantastic job). If we did this function in the cuter it would require additional team man/woman power. The whole thing is silly really. They should just make all gliders carry trackers and then make it live (to diffuse the flarm radar advantage). This was supposedly discussed at some level (rumor). But community level live tracking, from the team tactics perspective, will just lead to more start gaggles. Sure, it would make it really fun for spectators. I have no real opinion about what's right "ethically" anymore, but it is a little annoying and depressing since we (team USA) were at clear disadvantage if some teams had some form of sophisticated high function with flarm tracking, etc.

Sean

On Monday, January 23, 2017 at 5:49:20 AM UTC-8, wrote:
The trackers were usually delayed 15 minutes. Early on, for the first several racing tasks, it was 10. Then they seemed to stay with 15 minutes. JG may have more info from a team captain perspective regarding any debate around this. Several teams were rumored (unconfirmed and kept fairly secret) to have some level of Flarm radar. We utilized the delayed tracker info as much as we could (Team USA) but didn't have any functioning flarm radar for the event. I'm fine with that as it's a massive PITA for JG to manage and he had a huge amount on his plate just as the team Captain (he did a fantastic job). If we did this function in the cuter it would require additional team man/woman power. The whole thing is silly really. They should just make all gliders carry trackers and then make it live (to diffuse the flarm radar advantage). This was supposedly discussed at some level (rumor). But community level live tracking, from the team tactics perspective, will just lead to more start gaggles. Sure, it would make it really fun for spectators. I have no real opinion about what's right "ethically" anymore, but it is a little annoying and depressing since we (team USA) were at clear disadvantage if some teams had some form of sophisticated high function with flarm tracking, etc.

Sean

Not just FLARM tracking, but Livetrack24 is available with little delay. Contests use the delay to prevent their official site from being used to leech.
Jim