Harrison Ford Mistakenly Lands Husky On KSNA Taxiway

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:03:57 -0500, Vaughn Simon wrote:

On 2/15/2017 12:21 PM, Larry Dighera wrote:
Is it time for venerated pilot Harrison Ford to ground himself for less than
adequate judgment skills to act as Pilot In Command?

The runway is the one with the big "20L" painted on its near-end.

This ignominious incident is worse than Senator Inhoff's landing on a taxiway
because there was a big X on the runway.


Nonsense Larry. Did you bother taking a glance at the airport diagram?

I was based at KSNA for a decade. I'm very familiar with the layout.

Anytime you have parallel runways, with one fat and the other skinny,
this incident will occasionally happen because it's easy to focus on
only the skinny runway while confusing it for the larger parallel
runway. It's a matter of sight fixation (seeing what you expect to see)
Once you've done that, then the even skinnier taxiway becomes the
"skinny" runway in the pilot's head. I know that it happens at PBIA,
and that pilots are specifically warned about it.

I understand your point, but I don't recall anyone ever having landed on that
taxiway. The taxiway is quite narrow, I would estimate about 1/3rd the width
of the narrow 75' wide runway 20L. Take a look here
https://goo.gl/maps/xgXjy2uURJm and you'll see from the surface markings and
layout how difficult it is to mistake taxiway Charlie for runway 20L.

Really? Try this:
http://poitras.org/misc/ksna1.png

--
Don Poitras

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 16:28:35 +0000 (UTC), (Don Poitras)
wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:03:57 -0500, Vaughn Simon wrote:

On 2/15/2017 12:21 PM, Larry Dighera wrote:
Is it time for venerated pilot Harrison Ford to ground himself for less than
adequate judgment skills to act as Pilot In Command?

The runway is the one with the big "20L" painted on its near-end.

This ignominious incident is worse than Senator Inhoff's landing on a taxiway
because there was a big X on the runway.


Nonsense Larry. Did you bother taking a glance at the airport diagram?

I was based at KSNA for a decade. I'm very familiar with the layout.

Anytime you have parallel runways, with one fat and the other skinny,
this incident will occasionally happen because it's easy to focus on
only the skinny runway while confusing it for the larger parallel
runway. It's a matter of sight fixation (seeing what you expect to see)
Once you've done that, then the even skinnier taxiway becomes the
"skinny" runway in the pilot's head. I know that it happens at PBIA,
and that pilots are specifically warned about it.

I understand your point, but I don't recall anyone ever having landed on that
taxiway. The taxiway is quite narrow, I would estimate about 1/3rd the width
of the narrow 75' wide runway 20L. Take a look here
https://goo.gl/maps/xgXjy2uURJm and you'll see from the surface markings and
layout how difficult it is to mistake taxiway Charlie for runway 20L.

Really? Try this:
http://poitras.org/misc/ksna1.png

Thank you for taking the time to create that comparison image, Don.

I completely comprehend your argument, however if the pilot In Command fails to
check the numbers painted on the end of the runway, how is he to know he is
complying with the ATC clearance?

Mr. Ford is either losing his cognitive abilities, or he lacks due respect for
the requirements to operate responsibly, or both. We are all faced with the
former. Darwin usually purges those with the later attitude from the gene pool
sooner or later.


Message-ID:

"There's an old saying that every pilot starts with a full bag of
luck, and empty bag of experience - the trick being to fill the
bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck"
-- Colin Southern

Larry Dighera wrote:

snip

Mr. Ford is either losing his cognitive abilities, or he lacks due respect for
the requirements to operate responsibly, or both.

Another possibility; he ****ed up.

I suppose you have never in your life done anything that in retrospect you
concider stupid due to a momentary lapse in attention, focus or judgment?

--
Jim Pennino

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 19:57:12 -0000, wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

snip

Mr. Ford is either losing his cognitive abilities, or he lacks due respect for
the requirements to operate responsibly, or both.

Another possibility; he ****ed up.


That's beyond a possibility. It's a certainty.

The LA Times said Ford may not have been able to see over the nose of the
tail-dragger well enough to see the runway. That's a bogus excuse in my
opinion.


I suppose you have never in your life done anything that in retrospect you
concider stupid due to a momentary lapse in attention, focus or judgment?


When those type of events began to occur while PIC, I judged it was time to
stay out of the left seat. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is something
virtually all pilots must face at some point. You'll see ...

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 19:57:12 -0000, wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

snip

Mr. Ford is either losing his cognitive abilities, or he lacks due respect for
the requirements to operate responsibly, or both.

Another possibility; he ****ed up.


That's beyond a possibility. It's a certainty.

Then it is not possible that he is "either losing his cognitive abilities,
or he lacks due respect for the requirements to operate responsibly, or both"?


The LA Times said Ford may not have been able to see over the nose of the
tail-dragger well enough to see the runway. That's a bogus excuse in my
opinion.


I suppose you have never in your life done anything that in retrospect you
concider stupid due to a momentary lapse in attention, focus or judgment?


When those type of events began to occur while PIC, I judged it was time to
stay out of the left seat. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is something
virtually all pilots must face at some point. You'll see ...

For most people those type of events begin to occur as soon as mommy
and daddy are out of sight.

It is when those type of events start occuring on a regular basis that
there is a problem.

--
Jim Pennino

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 00:22:31 -0000, wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 19:57:12 -0000, wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

snip

Mr. Ford is either losing his cognitive abilities, or he lacks due respect for
the requirements to operate responsibly, or both.

Another possibility; he ****ed up.


That's beyond a possibility. It's a certainty.

Then it is not possible that he is "either losing his cognitive abilities,
or he lacks due respect for the requirements to operate responsibly, or both"?


Oh Plezze. Jim, I know you're smarter than that question would appear to
imply. Or have you just contracted a case of Trumpacity ("Trump Mendacity")?
:-)

It is, in my humble opinion, entirely possible, if not probable, that it was
either fellow airman Ford's possible less than reverent attitude toward
aviation, and the lessons it provides, and/or senescence-based progressive
physical impairment creeping in on its regular course, that precipitated what
you refer to as a Foxtrot Uniform.



The LA Times said Ford may not have been able to see over the nose of the
tail-dragger well enough to see the runway. That's a bogus excuse in my
opinion.


I suppose you have never in your life done anything that in retrospect you
concider stupid due to a momentary lapse in attention, focus or judgment?


When those type of events began to occur while PIC, I judged it was time to
stay out of the left seat. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is something
virtually all pilots must face at some point. You'll see ...

For most people those type of events begin to occur as soon as mommy
and daddy are out of sight.


Acts that I committed as an adult (which I believe is more germane to the
discussion) that I would consider "stupid due to a momentary lapse in
attention, focus or judgment" are generally grounded in a causality based on
stimuli in the physical world, or psychological in origin. A wise person who
is astute and attending to the events occurring in his/her life well enough to
recognize the opportunity for introspection FU's provide, will deliberate
internally on the dynamics involved, and attempt to adjust his future behavior
based on the results of that analysis so that similar errors are not repeated.

Those who choose to ignore facts, and continue to repeat non-beneficial
behavior, may face a sterner lesson...


It is when those type of events start occuring on a regular basis that
there is a problem.


While the FAA/NTSB concluded that probable cause in Ford's Santa Monica country
club "hard landing" was due to mechanical issues causing a cessation of power
(as I recall), I find it remarkable for a departing aircraft from the airport
where it was based to not have spilled a significant amount of fuel on impact.
I found no mention, nor saw no environmental haz-met team on site in the media
accounts of the incident I recall reading/viewing. ...How long ago was that?

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 00:22:31 -0000, wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 19:57:12 -0000, wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

snip

Mr. Ford is either losing his cognitive abilities, or he lacks due respect for
the requirements to operate responsibly, or both.

Another possibility; he ****ed up.


That's beyond a possibility. It's a certainty.

Then it is not possible that he is "either losing his cognitive abilities,
or he lacks due respect for the requirements to operate responsibly, or both"?


Oh Plezze. Jim, I know you're smarter than that question would appear to
imply. Or have you just contracted a case of Trumpacity ("Trump Mendacity")?
:-)

It is, in my humble opinion, entirely possible, if not probable, that it was
either fellow airman Ford's possible less than reverent attitude toward
aviation, and the lessons it provides, and/or senescence-based progressive
physical impairment creeping in on its regular course, that precipitated what
you refer to as a Foxtrot Uniform.

And couldn't possibly be a temporary distraction or lapse in judgement or
any of many other common tranisitory foibles?

So in your humble opinion he is either evil, demented or both.

The LA Times said Ford may not have been able to see over the nose of the
tail-dragger well enough to see the runway. That's a bogus excuse in my
opinion.


I suppose you have never in your life done anything that in retrospect you
concider stupid due to a momentary lapse in attention, focus or judgment?


When those type of events began to occur while PIC, I judged it was time to
stay out of the left seat. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is something
virtually all pilots must face at some point. You'll see ...

For most people those type of events begin to occur as soon as mommy
and daddy are out of sight.


Acts that I committed as an adult (which I believe is more germane to the
discussion) that I would consider "stupid due to a momentary lapse in
attention, focus or judgment" are generally grounded in a causality based on
stimuli in the physical world, or psychological in origin. A wise person who
is astute and attending to the events occurring in his/her life well enough to
recognize the opportunity for introspection FU's provide, will deliberate
internally on the dynamics involved, and attempt to adjust his future behavior
based on the results of that analysis so that similar errors are not repeated.

Or in other words, like most people, when you do something dumb you learn
from the experience.

Those who choose to ignore facts, and continue to repeat non-beneficial
behavior, may face a sterner lesson...

The key word here being "continue".

So far for the person you are declaring evil, demented, or both we have
one mechanical failure and one lapse of some sort.

It is when those type of events start occuring on a regular basis that
there is a problem.


While the FAA/NTSB concluded that probable cause in Ford's Santa Monica country
club "hard landing" was due to mechanical issues causing a cessation of power
(as I recall), I find it remarkable for a departing aircraft from the airport
where it was based to not have spilled a significant amount of fuel on impact.
I found no mention, nor saw no environmental haz-met team on site in the media
accounts of the incident I recall reading/viewing. ...How long ago was that?

The NTSB concluded that the main metering jet for the carburetor had
come loose, resulting in excessive fuel flow and the ultimate loss of
engine power in Ford's off airport forced landing.

As for spilled fuel, "Fuel was observed leaking from the front of the
airplane, and the responding fire department reported shutting off the
airplane's fuel supply from the cockpit."

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...FA121 &akey=1


--
Jim Pennino

Lots of video of this incident he
https://twitter.com/i/moments/834441236182396929


On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 09:30:33 -0800, Larry Dighera wrote:

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 00:22:31 -0000, wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 19:57:12 -0000, wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

snip

Mr. Ford is either losing his cognitive abilities, or he lacks due respect for
the requirements to operate responsibly, or both.

Another possibility; he ****ed up.


That's beyond a possibility. It's a certainty.

Then it is not possible that he is "either losing his cognitive abilities,
or he lacks due respect for the requirements to operate responsibly, or both"?


Oh Plezze. Jim, I know you're smarter than that question would appear to
imply. Or have you just contracted a case of Trumpacity ("Trump Mendacity")?
:-)

It is, in my humble opinion, entirely possible, if not probable, that it was
either fellow airman Ford's possible less than reverent attitude toward
aviation, and the lessons it provides, and/or senescence-based progressive
physical impairment creeping in on its regular course, that precipitated what
you refer to as a Foxtrot Uniform.



The LA Times said Ford may not have been able to see over the nose of the
tail-dragger well enough to see the runway. That's a bogus excuse in my
opinion.


I suppose you have never in your life done anything that in retrospect you
concider stupid due to a momentary lapse in attention, focus or judgment?


When those type of events began to occur while PIC, I judged it was time to
stay out of the left seat. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is something
virtually all pilots must face at some point. You'll see ...

For most people those type of events begin to occur as soon as mommy
and daddy are out of sight.


Acts that I committed as an adult (which I believe is more germane to the
discussion) that I would consider "stupid due to a momentary lapse in
attention, focus or judgment" are generally grounded in a causality based on
stimuli in the physical world, or psychological in origin. A wise person who
is astute and attending to the events occurring in his/her life well enough to
recognize the opportunity for introspection FU's provide, will deliberate
internally on the dynamics involved, and attempt to adjust his future behavior
based on the results of that analysis so that similar errors are not repeated.

Those who choose to ignore facts, and continue to repeat non-beneficial
behavior, may face a sterner lesson...


It is when those type of events start occuring on a regular basis that
there is a problem.


While the FAA/NTSB concluded that probable cause in Ford's Santa Monica country
club "hard landing" was due to mechanical issues causing a cessation of power
(as I recall), I find it remarkable for a departing aircraft from the airport
where it was based to not have spilled a significant amount of fuel on impact.
I found no mention, nor saw no environmental haz-met team on site in the media
accounts of the incident I recall reading/viewing. ...How long ago was that?