For Keith Willshaw...

Ah yes the near total erase and change the subject approach, take 7.
Now we are into claims being simply recycled, so be aware around 95%
of my text is simply putting back in the text Denyav simply has to drop,
nothing new here really, apart from the modern quotes. I timed my effort
at 10 minutes plus the 5 minute review before sending. Apart from point
23 below, search for "Hey some original text." as the marker for the start
of non deleted text

The story so far,

1) the claims about the war warning message text, dropped after the
war warning text was actually posted. (the warnings are supposed to
make Pearl Harbor the only target)
2) the use of the character in the Pearl Harbor movie played by Dan
Aykroyd as a source of facts, dropped when it was revealed where
the name came from.
3) claims about the various investigations into the Pearl Harbor attack,
dropped when a list of such investigations was posted
4) attempts to promote the relatively recent congressional request to
promote General Short and Admiral Kimmel as proof of a conspiracy
are dropped, after the text of the resolution is posted.
5) claims about what Admiral Kimmel said are backed up by the URL
of the transcript of the congressional request meeting, Kimmel had
been dead for around 30 years before the meeting. The URL text
does not support pre knowledge of the attack and includes over
statements on Kimmels behalf (inventing 800 to 1,000 extra patrol
bombers available)
6) the claim the only investigation to clear Kimmel is the reliable one
despite the claim the findings and evidence have never been released.
Claim dropped again.
7) The claims the investigations were all rigged because it was one
entity investigating itself. Dropped since the claimed only investigation
to clear Kimmel was USN, the USN investigating the USN.
8) Hollywood is a US "premier quasi-governmental PSYOP organization."
Claim dropped.
9) The claim the US needed Pearl to be attacked, apparently the assaults
on Wake, Guam, Midway, the Philippines and US shipping were not enough.
Claim dropped.
10) The claim MacArthur received warnings Hawaii did not, claim dropped.
The same war warnings were sent to all commands in the Pacific.
11) the claim the "McCollum Memo" was a blueprint for US government
actions, dropped after the memo summary was posted, pointing out
what the memo actually said.
12) the claim McCollum was in charge of codebreaking dropped, his
memo header makes it clear he was in a different area.
13) If you write a book that says no conspiracy you are automatically
said to be pushing the official version, and such versions are claimed
to be wrong. No proof mind you. Claim dropped.
14) The conspiracy pushers cannot lie unless they receive official permission.
That was a good one.
15) There are still some USN intercept files still hidden, claim dropped.
16) The attempt to use Stinnett as a source appears to be dropped,
since the claims are so easy to prove wrong it seems. If you question
Stinnett directly he complains about spelling errors rather than reply.
17) The Lietwiler letter, claims dropped after the key text was posted.
18) Only in Washington are investigations rigged with hand picked
documents. Claim dropped.
19) JN-25 was an "easy" code, claim dropped.
20) Churchill quote meaning, claim dropped.
21) If you know one thing perfectly you must know another thing perfectly
(in an attempt to "prove" 1941 = 2001)
22) The war warnings become a blind rather than identifying Pearl as
the target.
23) Allen Dulles, CIA chief saying they knew in 1941, claim dropped.

Let the laughs begin. Or more particularly Denyav's tour of web
sites looking for irrelevant quotes.

Denyav wrote in message ...
the claims about the war warning message text, dropped after the
war warning text was actually posted. (the warnings are supposed to
make Pearl Harbor the only targe

Naval Court of Inqury exonarated Kimmel because they consider so called War
Message as an attempt to direct the attention away from Pearl Harbor rather
than warning.

6) the claim the only investigation to clear Kimmel is the reliable one
despite the claim the findings and evidence have never been released.
Claim dropped again.
7) The claims the investigations were all rigged because it was one
entity investigating itself. Dropped since the claimed only investigation
to clear Kimmel was USN, the USN investigating the USN.

I like this, the results are secret but Denyav knows all. Organisations
investigating themselves cannot be trusted, but the USN can be when
it investigates itself. Remember in conspiracy theory the story validates
the source, not the source validates the story.

1)Nov.25: Yamamato's Target Pearl Harbor message to the First Air Fleet
intercepted and read

The many times deleted text,

"You mean the one the IJN couriered to the fleet in Hittokapu bay?
You see IJN custom was to send such orders by courier. Things
like making sure the rest of the IJN was not eavesdropping on
such sensitive information. After all any ship or shore station in
the fleet that picked up the message could take a look at the
contents and Yamamoto wanted it to be a secret operation.

The Nurse character in the Pearl Harbor movie told you right?

It is quite simple, when Denyav actually tries to put a source for the
claims up it is shot down, so we are left with claims with no proof."

2)Nov.26: So called War Warning message designed to draw attention
away from Pearl Harbor issued


Deleted text,

"Yes folks, I suppose people are aware of what else happened on
26 November, the transmission of the US terms for negotiations
to the Japanese. In effect a restatement of the original US terms,
ones Japan had already said were unacceptable. The US was
also aware of the 29 November "Things are automatically going
to happen" deadline for negotiations to succeed in Japanese
terms.

Strange isn't it, the diplomats conclude negotiations are off, so
the time has come to send a war warning. Instead the great
conspiracy has to decide because they happened on the
same date they must be related.

Just forget the allies were not decoding JN-25 in November
1941, that the message in question was not radioed according
to the IJN, that intercepted messages from the Pacific came
to Washington via airmail and sea mail, but this message,
never radioed, never decoded, was decoded in real time and
sent to Washington in real time and in an instant the US
organised a cover up, for the people in the Pacific and Washington
and London and the Dutch."

By the way the IJN never used the words Pearl Harbor in a JN-25B
message, it had a geographic designator, remember AF = Midway
and the way the USN had to send the famous fresh water message
to remove doubts about what AF stood for? But do not worry about
this, just assume perfect US knowledge pre war and then they lose
it as soon as war is declared.

3)Nov.26: Merchant shipping routes in Pasific changed so that Japanase Task
Force could sail to Hawaii without being seen by allied Merchant ships.


deleted text,

yes folks, if FDR wore green socks on 26 November that is a signal.
Sneezing twice was the go code. Anything that happens on 26
November is to be considered proof of whatever is wanted proven.

By the way work out the sailing time from the US to the mid Pacific
and note if the US wanted to avoid interceptions the ban needed to
be in place before the IJN sailed. Also note the US did not control
all allied shipping, only US and there were Soviet freighters moving
between Siberia and the US west coast. So much for all shipping.

Above all ignore the fact that the direct route from the US to the
Philippines was dominated by Japanese airbases.

4)But caring US president did not forget to ask Red Cross to prepare secretly
for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor eight days before Pearl Harbor attack.

Hey some original text.

Web site trawl, just ignore the Red Cross in Hawaii had been preparing
for war since March 1941, that 8 days before the attack was the expiry
of the date set by the Japanese for negotiations to succeed and that
Hawaii was the main US base in the Pacific, where you stockpile
supplies.

Conspiracy is wrong word to define Pearl Harbor incident.There is no
conspiracy at all.Everything is honestly and simply planned and many
times admitted.

Holy writ moment it seems. No proof.

"FDR stated that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next
Monday..The question was how we should maneuver into the position firing the
first shot without too much danger to ourselves.
In spite of risk involved,however,in letting the Japanase to fire the first
shot,we realized that in order to have full support of the American people,it
was desirable to make sure that the Japanase be the ones to do this so that
there should remain no doubt in anyone's mind as to who were the Aggressors"

Henry Stimson,Nov.25,1941

Gasp, Stimson is allowing the Japanese to attack the Philippines,
Guam, Wake and US shipping before allowing the US military to
shoot back. Shocking. No mention of Pearl Harbor of course, but
clearly the absence of an admission is an admission. Conspiracies
come in even numbers, the original and the cover up.

"As America becomes an increasingly multicultural society,it may find it more
difficult to fashion consensus on foreign policy issues,except in yhe
circumstances of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat"

Zbigniew Brzezinski, The Grand Chessboard,1997

hey how about that a pluralist society has more difficulty reaching
consensus.

"..the process of transformation..is likely to be long one,absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event-like a new Pearl Harbor"

Rebuilding Americas Defenses,Sep.2000

How about that, peace time military build ups are slower, and you
also do not have the ability to test things in combat, slowing things
down more.

"The other day a reporter friend told me that one of the highest ranking CIA
officials had said to him,off the record,when the dust finally clears the
Americans will see that 9/11 was a triumph for the intelligence community,not a
failure.

CIA agent Baer,See no Evil,2002

This is funny, either the community fumbled the warnings, bad move,
or the community is supposed to have allowed things, very bad move.
Above all he said he said is taken as proof of conspiracy and not an
attempt to turn the situation to advantage. By the way the book makes
the claims the US intelligence system is badly flawed, which makes it
unable to find conspiracies, let alone run them. So an attempt to spin
the result is taken as proof of conspiracies using a book that makes
it clear such a conspiracy could not happen.

Just remember folks, the US is so good it cannot be defeated,
only betrayed from within, the US government sees all, knows all.
The US compensates for this wonder ability by making sure
elected leaders betray the country on a regular basis, think of it
as a universal US presidential hobby.

Denyav has real problems if the above is supposed to explain what
happened in 1941.

I will ignore putting the deleted text back in this time, the McCollum
memo, war warnings text and so on.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

Now we are into claims being simply recycled, so be aware around 95%
of my text is simply putting back in the text Denyav simply has to drop,
nothing new here really, apart from the modern quotes. I timed my effort
at 10 minutes plus the 5 minute

You are very versed in using many detractors in your posts,but you seem to
forget the main rule:

Bad Policy cannot be corrected by excellent Strategy,bad Strategy cannot be
saved by excellent tactics.

If we put your detractors aside and summarize your most current position,we
find out :

1)According to you every statement no matter if they originated from
Stimson,Dulles,Churchill,Casey,Popov,Weiijeman,Gen .Thorpe,Hoover,Capt.Holc
wick,Dies Lieb etc is IRRELEVANT for the Pearl Harbor incident if they point to
a direction other than official direction.

2)You have finally admitted,after resisting long time to do so,that the
Japanase blundered away JN25B code.
You have also finally admitted that US took advantage of Japanase blunder and
recovered almost 5000 JN25B codes before March 1941.
But according to you US,that was able to recover 5000 codes in only a few
months,suddenly stopped recovering codes in March 1941 !!!!!.

I guess in March 1941, USN came under command of Yamamato and he stopped all
code recovering work as that could be dangerous for IJN in nearing conflict.


Thats your current position absent your detractors.
Truly amazing position indeed.
Cheers.

Ah yes the near total erase and change the subject approach, take 7.
Now we are into Denyav debating nothing new here really, I timed my effort
at 5 minutes plus the 5 minute review before sending.

The story so far,

1) the claims about the war warning message text, dropped after the
war warning text was actually posted. (the warnings are supposed to
make Pearl Harbor the only target)
2) the use of the character in the Pearl Harbor movie played by Dan
Aykroyd as a source of facts, dropped when it was revealed where
the name came from.
3) claims about the various investigations into the Pearl Harbor attack,
dropped when a list of such investigations was posted
4) attempts to promote the relatively recent congressional request to
promote General Short and Admiral Kimmel as proof of a conspiracy
are dropped, after the text of the resolution is posted.
5) claims about what Admiral Kimmel said are backed up by the URL
of the transcript of the congressional request meeting, Kimmel had
been dead for around 30 years before the meeting. The URL text
does not support pre knowledge of the attack and includes over
statements on Kimmels behalf (inventing 800 to 1,000 extra patrol
bombers available)
6) the claim the only investigation to clear Kimmel is the reliable one
despite the claim the findings and evidence have never been released.
Claim dropped again.
7) The claims the investigations were all rigged because it was one
entity investigating itself. Dropped since the claimed only investigation
to clear Kimmel was USN, the USN investigating the USN.
8) Hollywood is a US "premier quasi-governmental PSYOP organization."
Claim dropped.
9) The claim the US needed Pearl to be attacked, apparently the assaults
on Wake, Guam, Midway, the Philippines and US shipping were not enough.
Claim dropped.
10) The claim MacArthur received warnings Hawaii did not, claim dropped.
The same war warnings were sent to all commands in the Pacific.
11) the claim the "McCollum Memo" was a blueprint for US government
actions, dropped after the memo summary was posted, pointing out
what the memo actually said.
12) the claim McCollum was in charge of codebreaking dropped, his
memo header makes it clear he was in a different area.
13) If you write a book that says no conspiracy you are automatically
said to be pushing the official version, and such versions are claimed
to be wrong. No proof mind you. Claim dropped.
14) The conspiracy pushers cannot lie unless they receive official permission.
That was a good one.
15) There are still some USN intercept files still hidden, claim dropped.
16) The attempt to use Stinnett as a source appears to be dropped,
since the claims are so easy to prove wrong it seems. If you question
Stinnett directly he complains about spelling errors rather than reply.
17) The Lietwiler letter, claims dropped after the key text was posted.
18) Only in Washington are investigations rigged with hand picked
documents. Claim dropped.
19) JN-25 was an "easy" code, claim dropped.
20) Churchill quote meaning, claim dropped.
21) If you know one thing perfectly you must know another thing perfectly
(in an attempt to "prove" 1941 = 2001)
22) The war warnings become a blind rather than identifying Pearl as
the target. It would seem Denyav finally read the text after I posted it.
23) Allen Dulles, CIA chief saying they knew in 1941, claim dropped.
24) Denyav is now simply inventing things I have supposed to have said.

Denyav wrote in message ...
Now we are into claims being simply recycled, so be aware around 95%
of my text is simply putting back in the text Denyav simply has to drop,
nothing new here really, apart from the modern quotes. I timed my effort
at 10 minutes plus the 5 minute

You are very versed in using many detractors in your posts,but you seem to
forget the main rule:

Bad Policy cannot be corrected by excellent Strategy,bad Strategy cannot be
saved by excellent tactics.

Yes folks the non answer is the strategy.

If we put your detractors aside and summarize your most current position,we
find out :

1)According to you every statement no matter if they originated from
Stimson,Dulles,Churchill,Casey,Popov,Weiijeman,Ge n.Thorpe,Hoover,Capt.Holc
wick,Dies Lieb etc is IRRELEVANT for the Pearl Harbor incident if they point to
a direction other than official direction.

According to me the statements being used do not support the
conspiracy. By the way folks, no mention has been made for "Casey,
Popov, WGen.Thorpe,Hoover,Capt.Holcwick and "Lieb" before this
but do not worry, if you are going to lie about someone else, lie about
the discussion as well.

I like the way the Churchill quote cannot survive with the extra text
a few pages later being noted.

I like the fact the following Stimson quote is apparently confirming he
knew about the attack before hand.

"FDR stated that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next
Monday..The question was how should we maneuver them into position of firing
the first shot without too much danger to ourselves. In spite of risk involved,
however, in letting Japanase to fire the first shot, we realized that in order
to have full support of the American people it was desirable to make sure that
the Japanese be the ones to do this so that there should remain no doubt in
anyone's mind as to who were the Aggressors"

Henry Stimson, The Secretary of War,Nov.25,1941

Congratulations on a non relevant quote, by the way ever going to tell
us why the invasion of the Philippines, Wake and Guam and attacks
on US shipping were not enough for first shot honours? By the way the
above is apparently proof Stimson is admitting to allowing the Pearl
Harbor attack, as opposed to admitting he was not going to allow the
US to start shooting first.

Remember the isolationists, plus those that opposed FDR? The US
was a democracy, people actually differed from the government and
were allowed to. Such people were against the government starting
a war without congressional approval at least.

By the way "Next Monday" for someone writing on 25 November 1941
is 1 December 1941. Amazing how FDR knew the Japanese were
going to attack on 30 November 1941, the day after the 29 November
deadline the Japanese had set. Oh that's right, throw away all the
predictions that were incorrect and only ever mention the ones that
were correct, conspiracies need such help.

2)You have finally admitted,after resisting long time to do so,that the
Japanase blundered away JN25B code.

Translation Denyav needed to rewind to the start and simply lie about
what I have said.

You have also finally admitted that US took advantage of Japanase blunder
and recovered almost 5000 JN25B codes before March 1941.

This is what I said, in a different thread,

The codes in question were the A5 and B5 versions. That is the code
book was changed from A to B but the additive (random number) book
was left at 5. In August 1945 the USN noted it had 4,907 out of 50,000
additives for the 5 book. Which explains quite well why the main effect
of the failure to change additive books did not compromise the code
values, but did compromise the fact the basic code system was still in use.

If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN reports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941.

You see it is quite simple announce every random number recovered
is a JN-25B code book value, totally different thing of course but do not
let that stop you. Please continue this line, it shows how wrong you are.

But according to you US,that was able to recover 5000 codes in only a few
months,suddenly stopped recovering codes in March 1941 !!!!!.

Yes folks, Denyav has to announce he does not want to know multiple
times. The % additive book came into service on 1 October 1940 and
went out of service on 31 January 1941. It increased the size of the
random number tables from 30,000 to 50,000, plus allowing the clerk
to start from any column, not column 1 of a row on the chosen page.
This further required changes to the message group where the sender
told the receiver what random numbers were used. Helps explain why
the USN had less than 10% of the book after 4 months.

I guess in March 1941, USN came under command of Yamamato and
he stopped all code recovering work as that could be dangerous for IJN
in nearing conflict.

This would presumably explain the IJN conspiracy to lose at Midway.

Thats your current position absent your detractors.

Yes folks, Denyav needs to do both sides of the debate, it stops
the facts intruding.

Truly amazing position indeed.

Translation, Denyav now needs to reply to himself in order to look
like he has any facts.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email

Ah yes the near total erase and change the subject approach, take 7.
Now we are into Denyav debating nothing new here really, I timed my effort
at 5 minutes plus the 5 minute review before sending.

I hate to delete your detractors but we are now pretty familiar with your
position.

1)Calling everything,that point to the directions other than official
version,IRRELEVANT.

2)Accepting Japanase code blunder but claiming that US stopped code recovery
work in April 41,after recovering 5000 codes

3)Then accepting that code recovery did not stop in April.

You are trying to defend an undefendable position and you need of course lots
of detractors for the defense.

But dont worry many gov't employees have similar problems nowadays.

Ah yes the near total erase take 8. Now we are into Denyav debating
himself but assigning the words to me, nothing new here really, I timed
my effort at 5 minutes plus the 5 minute review before sending.

The story so far,

1) the claims about the war warning message text, dropped after the
war warning text was actually posted. (the warnings are supposed to
make Pearl Harbor the only target)
2) the use of the character in the Pearl Harbor movie played by Dan
Aykroyd as a source of facts, dropped when it was revealed where
the name came from.
3) claims about the various investigations into the Pearl Harbor attack,
dropped when a list of such investigations was posted
4) attempts to promote the relatively recent congressional request to
promote General Short and Admiral Kimmel as proof of a conspiracy
are dropped, after the text of the resolution is posted.
5) claims about what Admiral Kimmel said are backed up by the URL
of the transcript of the congressional request meeting, Kimmel had
been dead for around 30 years before the meeting. The URL text
does not support pre knowledge of the attack and includes over
statements on Kimmels behalf (inventing 800 to 1,000 extra patrol
bombers available)
6) the claim the only investigation to clear Kimmel is the reliable one
despite the claim the findings and evidence have never been released.
Claim dropped again.
7) The claims the investigations were all rigged because it was one
entity investigating itself. Dropped since the claimed only investigation
to clear Kimmel was USN, the USN investigating the USN.
8) Hollywood is a US "premier quasi-governmental PSYOP organization."
Claim dropped.
9) The claim the US needed Pearl to be attacked, apparently the assaults
on Wake, Guam, Midway, the Philippines and US shipping were not enough.
Claim dropped.
10) The claim MacArthur received warnings Hawaii did not, claim dropped.
The same war warnings were sent to all commands in the Pacific.
11) the claim the "McCollum Memo" was a blueprint for US government
actions, dropped after the memo summary was posted, pointing out
what the memo actually said.
12) the claim McCollum was in charge of codebreaking dropped, his
memo header makes it clear he was in a different area.
13) If you write a book that says no conspiracy you are automatically
said to be pushing the official version, and such versions are claimed
to be wrong. No proof mind you. Claim dropped.
14) The conspiracy pushers cannot lie unless they receive official permission.
That was a good one.
15) There are still some USN intercept files still hidden, claim dropped.
16) The attempt to use Stinnett as a source appears to be dropped,
since the claims are so easy to prove wrong it seems. If you question
Stinnett directly he complains about spelling errors rather than reply.
17) The Lietwiler letter, claims dropped after the key text was posted.
18) Only in Washington are investigations rigged with hand picked
documents. Claim dropped.
19) JN-25 was an "easy" code, claim dropped.
20) Churchill quote meaning, claim dropped.
21) If you know one thing perfectly you must know another thing perfectly
(in an attempt to "prove" 1941 = 2001)
22) The war warnings become a blind rather than identifying Pearl as
the target. It would seem Denyav finally read the text after I posted it.
23) Allen Dulles, CIA chief saying they knew in 1941, claim dropped.
24) Denyav is now simply inventing things I have supposed to have said.

Denyav wrote in message ...
Ah yes the near total erase and change the subject approach, take 7.
Now we are into Denyav debating nothing new here really, I timed my effort
at 5 minutes plus the 5 minute review before sending.

I hate to delete your detractors but we are now pretty familiar with your
position.

Translation Denyav has to delete my words and then tell the world
what he wants me to have said.

1)Calling everything,that point to the directions other than official
version,IRRELEVANT.

So please post the text where I said this,

My uses of the word irrelevant,

"Presumably the British reporting the codes were hard to break is
also irrelevant?"

"Let the laughs begin. Or more particularly Denyav's tour of web
sites looking for irrelevant quotes."

2)Accepting Japanase code blunder but claiming that US stopped code recovery
work in April 41,after recovering 5000 codes

Please provide the text where I said this.

Yes folks, Denyav is going to announce he does no idea on IJN
codes, confusing the recovery of random number meant to disguise
the code groups, (stage 1) with giving meaning to the code groups
(stage 3), stage 2 is listing the code groups in use.

3)Then accepting that code recovery did not stop in April.

Yes folks, I list the allied code recoveries to January 1942 and
that means I stopped talking about code recoveries in April 1941.
Simple logic really.

This is what I said, in a different thread,

The codes in question were the A5 and B5 versions. That is the code
book was changed from A to B but the additive (random number) book
was left at 5. In August 1945 the USN noted it had 4,907 out of 50,000
additives for the 5 book. Which explains quite well why the main effect
of the failure to change additive books did not compromise the code
values, but did compromise the fact the basic code system was still in use.

If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN reports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941.

You see it is quite simple announce every random number recovered
is a JN-25B code book value, totally different thing of course but do not
let that stop you. Please continue this line, it shows how wrong you are.

Yes folks, Denyav has to announce he does not want to know multiple
times. The 5 additive book came into service on 1 October 1940 and
went out of service on 31 January 1941. It increased the size of the
random number tables from 30,000 to 50,000, plus allowing the clerk
to start from any column, not column 1 of a row on the chosen page.
This further required changes to the message group where the sender
told the receiver what random numbers were used. Helps explain why
the USN had less than 10% of the book after 4 months.

You are trying to defend an undefendable position and you need of course lots
of detractors for the defense.

This is becoming very funny, the defender of the undefendable
position is the one who needs to keep deleting all the evidence.

But dont worry many gov't employees have similar problems nowadays.

Ah yes, Denyav is trying to announce I am a government employee, which
he considers to be a great insult. He is as accurate here as elsewhere.
Oh yes, I trust he does not use money since it is only money if the government
says so, not government owned roads or parks etc. Or perhaps he does,
to award more medals for defying the (non existent) enemy.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

told the receiver what random numbers were used. Helps explain why
the USN had less than 10% of the book after 4 months.

So that means in April 1941,at the latest,US had 10% of the book in the hand.
Can you tell us the percentage of the book available to US on Dec.4,1941?

Or did US stop recovery work in April and started hibernating?

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
told the receiver what random numbers were used. Helps explain why
the USN had less than 10% of the book after 4 months.

So that means in April 1941,at the latest,US had 10% of the book in the
hand.
Can you tell us the percentage of the book available to US on Dec.4,1941?


Of the 50,000 code groups used only 3800 had been cracked

Or did US stop recovery work in April and started hibernating?

Nope the Japanese imtroduced a new 50,000 group additive
book in August 1941 which set them back months

They also had low priority, Joe Rochefort recorded that his group had
little
equipment, the tabulating machines and teletypes needed had been
diverted to the efforts to break the German and Italian codes and
the Japanese diplomatic cipher

He didnt even have a secure comms line to the radio intercept
station. All intercepts had to be delivered by courier. It wasnt
until Febuary 1942 that the group began to read even a small
portion of messages in JN-25

Keith

Ah yes the near total erase take 9. Now we are into Denyav trying
to change additive books into code group books. I timed
my effort at 5 minutes plus the 5 minute review before sending.

The story so far,

1) the claims about the war warning message text, dropped after the
war warning text was actually posted. (the warnings are supposed to
make Pearl Harbor the only target)
2) the use of the character in the Pearl Harbor movie played by Dan
Aykroyd as a source of facts, dropped when it was revealed where
the name came from.
3) claims about the various investigations into the Pearl Harbor attack,
dropped when a list of such investigations was posted
4) attempts to promote the relatively recent congressional request to
promote General Short and Admiral Kimmel as proof of a conspiracy
are dropped, after the text of the resolution is posted.
5) claims about what Admiral Kimmel said are backed up by the URL
of the transcript of the congressional request meeting, Kimmel had
been dead for around 30 years before the meeting. The URL text
does not support pre knowledge of the attack and includes over
statements on Kimmels behalf (inventing 800 to 1,000 extra patrol
bombers available)
6) the claim the only investigation to clear Kimmel is the reliable one
despite the claim the findings and evidence have never been released.
Claim dropped again.
7) The claims the investigations were all rigged because it was one
entity investigating itself. Dropped since the claimed only investigation
to clear Kimmel was USN, the USN investigating the USN.
8) Hollywood is a US "premier quasi-governmental PSYOP organization."
Claim dropped.
9) The claim the US needed Pearl to be attacked, apparently the assaults
on Wake, Guam, Midway, the Philippines and US shipping were not enough.
Claim dropped.
10) The claim MacArthur received warnings Hawaii did not, claim dropped.
The same war warnings were sent to all commands in the Pacific.
11) the claim the "McCollum Memo" was a blueprint for US government
actions, dropped after the memo summary was posted, pointing out
what the memo actually said.
12) the claim McCollum was in charge of codebreaking dropped, his
memo header makes it clear he was in a different area.
13) If you write a book that says no conspiracy you are automatically
said to be pushing the official version, and such versions are claimed
to be wrong. No proof mind you. Claim dropped.
14) The conspiracy pushers cannot lie unless they receive official permission.
That was a good one.
15) There are still some USN intercept files still hidden, claim dropped.
16) The attempt to use Stinnett as a source appears to be dropped,
since the claims are so easy to prove wrong it seems. If you question
Stinnett directly he complains about spelling errors rather than reply.
17) The Lietwiler letter, claims dropped after the key text was posted.
18) Only in Washington are investigations rigged with hand picked
documents. Claim dropped.
19) JN-25 was an "easy" code, claim dropped.
20) Churchill quote meaning, claim dropped.
21) If you know one thing perfectly you must know another thing perfectly
(in an attempt to "prove" 1941 = 2001)
22) The war warnings become a blind rather than identifying Pearl as
the target. It would seem Denyav finally read the text after I posted it.
23) Allen Dulles, CIA chief saying they knew in 1941, claim dropped.
24) Denyav is now simply inventing things I have supposed to have said.
25) Denyav is going to keep taking the number of random numbers
recovered and changing this to code group meaning recoveries.
25) It would seem the proof about what I said was irrelevant is not
able to be presented, so claim dropped.
26) The sad attempt to decide where I work has been dropped.

Denyav wrote in message ...

Deleted text,

"Yes folks, Denyav has to announce he does not want to know multiple
times. The 5 additive book came into service on 1 October 1940 and
went out of service on 31 January 1941. It increased the size of the
random number tables from 30,000 to 50,000, plus allowing the clerk
to start from any column, not column 1 of a row on the chosen page.
This further required changes to the message group where the sender"

told the receiver what random numbers were used. Helps explain why
the USN had less than 10% of the book after 4 months.

So that means in April 1941,at the latest,US had 10% of the book in the hand.
Can you tell us the percentage of the book available to US on Dec.4,1941?

Ah this is really really funny, thanks for confirming how little you
care about reality. The book in question is the 5 additive book
as the deleted text makes clear, but that has to be erased,
instead "the book" has to be redefined as the B code book.

People are no doubt well aware by now the multiple times I
have posted the recoveries of the B code book code groups.

Or did US stop recovery work in April and started hibernating?

Yes folks, Denyav is going to use the fact the US stopped working
on the A code book (replaced 1 December 1940) and the 5 additive
book (replaced 1 February 1941) as an attempt to simply close down
the debate into what he would prefer I wrote.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.