US club class definition

Given that today *everyone* has plenty of potential exposure to the reality of
flight/pilots-required/etc., exposure would seem to be less "the main" entry
barrier, than "something else," insofar as the health (or not) of US general
aviation is concerned.

The above is from the perspective of an SSA member since '72 and an EAA member
since '79.

Bob W.

Just my opinion, but I think the main entry barrier is not at entry, but at the point about 2/3rds of the way to solo. The trainee just gets tired of spending days at the airfield and getting only a couple of flights with an instructor.

On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 8:45:59 PM UTC-5, WB wrote:

Given that today *everyone* has plenty of potential exposure to the reality of
flight/pilots-required/etc., exposure would seem to be less "the main" entry
barrier, than "something else," insofar as the health (or not) of US general
aviation is concerned.

The above is from the perspective of an SSA member since '72 and an EAA member
since '79.

Bob W.

Just my opinion, but I think the main entry barrier is not at entry, but at the point about 2/3rds of the way to solo. The trainee just gets tired of spending days at the airfield and getting only a couple of flights with an instructor.

There is some real truth to WB's observation for some people.
In our area a student has the option of flying with our club or going to a commercial operation 10 miles away.
When a student is not happy with waiting and sharing resources we suggest that he or she try the other operation. Some do and some stay there. Most don't due to the difference in cost, which is about double.
We run a training operation all day with two 2-33's staffed as required. Most students get 2 to 3 flights a day.
If someone is time constrained we suggest they get there at the start of operations and we'll get their flying in so they can get to the soccer game, or whatever.
Interestingly the people who act most time constrained can't drag their butts out of bed in the morning. They expect to be customers, not club members. Experience shows they are much less likely to stick with it and be long term participants.
We do put extra effort into having waiting member help out which makes the time go quicker.
FWIW
UH

Agreed - Soaring is not as relatable as other forms of racing.

But people are INSANE if they believe the current levels of participation are acceptable.

In 2016 a total of TWELVE pilots entered the Standard Class Nationals.

That's it!!! TWELVE!!!

Nationals should have a wait list every year, and take years for pilots to achieve a score that qualifies them into the national race.

We are at the point where we must combine multiple classes to even have enough pilots to "break even" at a national contest. That's sad, it's unfortunate and speaks volumes to a lack of common sense to make this a popular sport in America.

I doubt that we will even have billions or millions interested in our sport. But hoping for more than 12 in a class, or more than 25 in a large national class is completely realistic.....if you listen to those who do not participate.


Don't survey the current racing pilots, survey those who have quit the sport or won't enter a race only. Ask them why they are turned off to the idea of competition.

Ask the pilots who don't compete, if a race that has a rule book that can fit on a post card (aside from FAR's) if that would entice them to join.

Ask the pilots if a grand prix race is more exciting than an MAT.

Don't ask anyone in the current SSA leadership, because obviously what they are doing, is not working.

Once again....12 pilots entered the standard class nationals. There's more than a HALF A MILLION pilots in the USA. Add on ratings are easy to get. Why would only 12 pilots enter a class for a nationals???

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

Whoooomp, there it is!

Curious to compare the US competition attendee numbers to other countries around the world.
Are they all dropping in the last, say, 30 years?
Are some countries stagnant at some level?
Are some countries gaining attendance?
If they're all/mostly dropping, by what percentage?

There will be some that have gone up, partly because private aircraft ownership was expensive or even not allowed.

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 10:22:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Agreed - Soaring is not as relatable as other forms of racing.

But people are INSANE if they believe the current levels of participation are acceptable.

In 2016 a total of TWELVE pilots entered the Standard Class Nationals.

That's it!!! TWELVE!!!

Nationals should have a wait list every year, and take years for pilots to achieve a score that qualifies them into the national race.

We are at the point where we must combine multiple classes to even have enough pilots to "break even" at a national contest. That's sad, it's unfortunate and speaks volumes to a lack of common sense to make this a popular sport in America.

I doubt that we will even have billions or millions interested in our sport. But hoping for more than 12 in a class, or more than 25 in a large national class is completely realistic.....if you listen to those who do not participate.


Don't survey the current racing pilots, survey those who have quit the sport or won't enter a race only. Ask them why they are turned off to the idea of competition.

Ask the pilots who don't compete, if a race that has a rule book that can fit on a post card (aside from FAR's) if that would entice them to join.

Ask the pilots if a grand prix race is more exciting than an MAT.

Don't ask anyone in the current SSA leadership, because obviously what they are doing, is not working.

Once again....12 pilots entered the standard class nationals. There's more than a HALF A MILLION pilots in the USA. Add on ratings are easy to get. Why would only 12 pilots enter a class for a nationals???

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

Whoooomp, there it is!

I'm guilty of abetting thread drift.
Out of respect for the person who started this thread, please start your own.
UH

UH stated:
They expect to be customers, not club members.

Exactly! They want to show up just before launch with everything
all set up for them beforehand, and then leave as soon as their
flight is over so they can go do some other activity. Oh, and they
want to reserve the best time of the day for themselves ahead of
time as well. They want to have the benefits that a commercial
operator provides, but want to pay low club rates while not
participating in any of the club duties which lower the costs...
Welcome to the USA attitude...."I want everything, and I want it
now, and I want it for free - or cheap."

My club in Germany had it right. If you wanted to fly, you had to be
there before 9 AM to help unload the hangar. After that, you helped
wherever you could outside of the time you got to fly. Afterwards,
you were obligated to stay and help until all was put away, and the
hangar doors were closed for the night. Unfortunately for soaring
in the USA, most Americans will never put up with rules and
restrictions like those found in other places. They will just go and
look for something else which is easier to do.

When prospective new members show up at our place, we explain
that ours is a participatory club, and that we own the airport as
well. We tell them right up front that if they don't want to
participate in the duties of running the club and the airport, that
they should get in their cars and drive the 50 miles to the same
commercial operator that UH refers his people to as well.

Everyone likes the low club rates, but not a lot want to do the
required participation work which keeps the rates low and
affordable... If you leave the work to a dedicated few, they burn out
and leave after some period of time where they have been taken
advantage of....

I think it is just a pervasive cultural attitude that is found in the
USA, and that is - and has been- a "hard nut to crack"...

FWIW,,,,,,, RO

Mike is right, but it wasn't always that way in the USA. All these
useless (entitled) people grew up in the past 40 or so years.

Flame suit on.

On 3/4/2017 9:00 AM, Michael Opitz wrote:
UH stated:
They expect to be customers, not club members.
Exactly! They want to show up just before launch with everything
all set up for them beforehand, and then leave as soon as their
flight is over so they can go do some other activity. Oh, and they
want to reserve the best time of the day for themselves ahead of
time as well. They want to have the benefits that a commercial
operator provides, but want to pay low club rates while not
participating in any of the club duties which lower the costs...
Welcome to the USA attitude...."I want everything, and I want it
now, and I want it for free - or cheap."

My club in Germany had it right. If you wanted to fly, you had to be
there before 9 AM to help unload the hangar. After that, you helped
wherever you could outside of the time you got to fly. Afterwards,
you were obligated to stay and help until all was put away, and the
hangar doors were closed for the night. Unfortunately for soaring
in the USA, most Americans will never put up with rules and
restrictions like those found in other places. They will just go and
look for something else which is easier to do.

When prospective new members show up at our place, we explain
that ours is a participatory club, and that we own the airport as
well. We tell them right up front that if they don't want to
participate in the duties of running the club and the airport, that
they should get in their cars and drive the 50 miles to the same
commercial operator that UH refers his people to as well.

Everyone likes the low club rates, but not a lot want to do the
required participation work which keeps the rates low and
affordable... If you leave the work to a dedicated few, they burn out
and leave after some period of time where they have been taken
advantage of....

I think it is just a pervasive cultural attitude that is found in the
USA, and that is - and has been- a "hard nut to crack"...

FWIW,,,,,,, RO


--
Dan, 5J

What do business do? They think smarter, not harder.

Maybe instead of making the club sweep the hangar everyday, they can invest in a leaf blower.

Maybe instead of disassembling a club glider everyday to store in a trailer, they can invest in a hangar.

Perhaps instead of having club members walk wingtipa, they can invest in a wing wheel.

If this sport isn't made easier and convenient, you're done.

Wake up, think outside the box!!!!


Telling a guest on day one they MUST WORK AND PULL THEIR WEIGHT AROUND HERE, scares the heck out them.

Their are easier and smarter ways.

At 16:55 04 March 2017, wrote:
What do business do? They think smarter, not harder.

Maybe instead of making the club sweep the hangar everyday,
they can invest
in a leaf blower.

Maybe instead of disassembling a club glider everyday to store in
a
trailer, they can invest in a hangar.

Perhaps instead of having club members walk wingtipa, they can
invest in a
wing wheel.

If this sport isn't made easier and convenient, you're done.

Wake up, think outside the box!!!!


Telling a guest on day one they MUST WORK AND PULL THEIR
WEIGHT AROUND
HERE, scares the heck out them.

Their are easier and smarter ways.

You forget their premise. They want it for free or cheap! They
don't want to invest in a leaf blower, or a wing tip wheel, let alone a
hangar!! That costs money!! They don't want to spend money or
work either.. They want others to do it for them for free. Most of
them are slackers who want to ride on the backs of a few that are
willing to work..

They want easy and convenient, but especially CHEAP!! Sometimes
those "wants" are mutually exclusive and ride on imposing on other
members.

Our club owns weed whackers and leaf blowers as well as tractors
and mowers too. The club needs members that are willing to pitch
in with some of their own time (and sometimes muscle too).