All US Records are Now Motor Glider Records

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 5:14:50 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
A distinct disadvantage motor gliders have is the motor.

This is about rules, not any specific technology.

Could be Jets.

Could be FES.

Could be Electro-gravitics some day! (I'm from New Boston, lol: http://www.newbostonhistoricalsociety.com/gravity.html)

Think ahead a little.

But even with current technology, an ASG-29es is only about 1 lb / sq ft heavier than a dry ASG-29 and the difference in climb (if you can see it at all) just isn't going to be a factor on a record day.

best,
Evan

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 5:42:20 PM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:

But even with current technology, an ASG-29es is only about 1 lb / sq ft heavier than a dry ASG-29 and the difference in climb (if you can see it at all) just isn't going to be a factor on a record day.

best,
Evan

Your information on the ASG-29Es is just plain and simply WRONG! The ASG-29Es's I am familiar with are flying with min wing loading around 8.8 pounds.

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:51:24 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 5:42:20 PM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:

But even with current technology, an ASG-29es is only about 1 lb / sq ft heavier than a dry ASG-29 and the difference in climb (if you can see it at all) just isn't going to be a factor on a record day.

best,
Evan

Your information on the ASG-29Es is just plain and simply WRONG! The ASG-29Es's I am familiar with are flying with min wing loading around 8.8 pounds.

Have you somehow missed the fact that modern gliders climb *really* well at high wing loading? An ASG-29 can spot at ASW-20 (itself no slouch, as I try to demonstrate) about 2 # in wing loading and still climb at parity. This is the aspect of modern ships that tries to pry my wallet open.

Since you called me out on the numbers... My "1 psf" came from a guy known for fuzzy numbers (unless a dollar sign was involved). Fair enough, let's check.

So: https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/flugzeuge/asg-29/

For non-electric start version, empty mass according to Schleicher goes up 99 lbs on 113 square feet of wing (18m span) or 99 sq feet (15m). Numbers aren't published on the 29es page, but will obviously be a bit higher. Enough higher to get your caps lock key involved! With a parachute and land out kit, I'd be right around 9# at 15m(!) span. While higher than I would prefer for a survival day, that's a sweet spot wing loading for a moderate day... and what was this thread about, again?

Sorry, Error #404, alibi not found.

best regards,
Evan Ludeman / Dino-man

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:51:24 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 5:42:20 PM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:

But even with current technology, an ASG-29es is only about 1 lb / sq ft heavier than a dry ASG-29 and the difference in climb (if you can see it at all) just isn't going to be a factor on a record day.

best,
Evan

Your information on the ASG-29Es is just plain and simply WRONG! The ASG-29Es's I am familiar with are flying with min wing loading around 8.8 pounds.

I'm flying my '29 dry at 8.0 lb/sq ft and I'm not skinny. I don't think Evan is all that far off with his 1 lb ballpark estimate.
My '24E is 1.1 lb/sq ft heavier than my 24 was.
2 data points
UH

I guess we need to know the reference point, Hank is that at 15 meters or 18 meters? 8.6-9.0 lbs would be the min wing loading on 18m ASG-29Es depending on pilot weight, and how the glider is equipped.

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 6:42:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:51:24 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 5:42:20 PM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:

But even with current technology, an ASG-29es is only about 1 lb / sq ft heavier than a dry ASG-29 and the difference in climb (if you can see it at all) just isn't going to be a factor on a record day.

best,
Evan

Your information on the ASG-29Es is just plain and simply WRONG! The ASG-29Es's I am familiar with are flying with min wing loading around 8.8 pounds.

I'm flying my '29 dry at 8.0 lb/sq ft and I'm not skinny. I don't think Evan is all that far off with his 1 lb ballpark estimate.
My '24E is 1.1 lb/sq ft heavier than my 24 was.
2 data points
UH

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 2:31:23 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I guess we need to know the reference point, Hank is that at 15 meters or 18 meters? 8.6-9.0 lbs would be the min wing loading on 18m ASG-29Es depending on pilot weight, and how the glider is equipped.

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 6:42:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:51:24 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 5:42:20 PM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:

But even with current technology, an ASG-29es is only about 1 lb / sq ft heavier than a dry ASG-29 and the difference in climb (if you can see it at all) just isn't going to be a factor on a record day.

best,
Evan

Your information on the ASG-29Es is just plain and simply WRONG! The ASG-29Es's I am familiar with are flying with min wing loading around 8.8 pounds.

I'm flying my '29 dry at 8.0 lb/sq ft and I'm not skinny. I don't think Evan is all that far off with his 1 lb ballpark estimate.
My '24E is 1.1 lb/sq ft heavier than my 24 was.
2 data points
UH

18 meters
UH

Originally Posted by

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 2:31:23 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I guess we need to know the reference point, Hank is that at 15 meters or 18 meters? 8.6-9.0 lbs would be the min wing loading on 18m ASG-29Es depending on pilot weight, and how the glider is equipped.

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 6:42:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:51:24 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 5:42:20 PM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:

But even with current technology, an ASG-29es is only about 1 lb / sq ft heavier than a dry ASG-29 and the difference in climb (if you can see it at all) just isn't going to be a factor on a record day.

best,
Evan

Your information on the ASG-29Es is just plain and simply WRONG! The ASG-29Es's I am familiar with are flying with min wing loading around 8.8 pounds.

I'm flying my '29 dry at 8.0 lb/sq ft and I'm not skinny. I don't think Evan is all that far off with his 1 lb ballpark estimate.
My '24E is 1.1 lb/sq ft heavier than my 24 was.
2 data points
UH

18 meters
UH

My ASG-29, no engine, in 18-m config was 7.64 lbs no ballast. Pilot and chute account for 199 lbs of the total weight.

Rick
NR