We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

Chris,

I respect your engagement in this forum to help our failing sport. You have a tough job ahead of you.

Perhaps if there was enough orders for the remaking of the ASW-19, say 50 orders at a reasonable price, the Alexander Schliecher factory could start up production again.

Just like Chevrolet can make a high end fully loaded Corvette with the latest technology for over $100,000 and a stripped down camaro for $25,000 (both brand new 2017 models). Surely, a sailplane factory could do the same thing, offer a high end and a low end glider.

I have to believe that if there were enough orders for this sailplane to be brought back into production at a reasonable price there would be a tremendous amount of orders and it would jumpstart the club class like you've never seen before.

I will say it again, if the PW-5 was produced for the price it was, so can it happen again.

Perhaps if there was enough orders for the remaking of the ASW-19, say 50 orders at a reasonable price, the Alexander Schliecher factory could start up production again.

Just like Chevrolet can make a high end fully loaded Corvette with the latest technology for over $100,000 and a stripped down camaro for $25,000 (both brand new 2017 models). Surely, a sailplane factory could do the same thing, offer a high end and a low end glider.

I have to believe that if there were enough orders for this sailplane to be brought back into production at a reasonable price there would be a tremendous amount of orders and it would jumpstart the club class like you've never seen before.

I will say it again, if the PW-5 was produced for the price it was, so can it happen again.

As the CEO of General Motors said a year or so ago in an interview, "I can bend metal that looks ugly or bend metal looks good. The cost of doing either is the same."
I can't believe that the actual cost of producing an ASW19 today in Germany is significantly less than the cost of making the ASW28. Both will be manufactured with the same processes, etc, but just a different shape. The bulk of the manufacturing cost is labor. Carbon fiber? That cost differencial is small in the overall picture. Plus you get the added benefit of improved cockpit safety in the newer design.
Are you expecting the new ASW19's to be made in China, Malaysia, or another low labor cost country? I'd enjoy listening to the conversations at Schleicher when that topic is discussed.
I think your idea has some huge practical road blocks directly in it's path..

http://www.proairsport.com/project-glow.php Predicted price $53K. That's with two motors. Twice the record breaking capacity. If you had new 25K ASW-19s on the market, all it would do is make old ASW-19s worth 12K. But I don't think it can be done with current construction techniques. Figure out how to build a plastic rotomolded glider(same as kayaks) and you'd be in the low cost glider market. That assumes there are low cost glider buyers. How much performance would pilots give up for a cheap new glider? And how much performance would they give up for a new glider with a motor at a 'low' price? Get permission to build new 1-26s that would fix everything... Rotomolded plastic 1-26s are the future. Order yours today. Available in traditional yellow and orange.
On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:08:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Chris,

I respect your engagement in this forum to help our failing sport. You have a tough job ahead of you.

Perhaps if there was enough orders for the remaking of the ASW-19, say 50 orders at a reasonable price, the Alexander Schliecher factory could start up production again.

Just like Chevrolet can make a high end fully loaded Corvette with the latest technology for over $100,000 and a stripped down camaro for $25,000 (both brand new 2017 models). Surely, a sailplane factory could do the same thing, offer a high end and a low end glider.

I have to believe that if there were enough orders for this sailplane to be brought back into production at a reasonable price there would be a tremendous amount of orders and it would jumpstart the club class like you've never seen before.

I will say it again, if the PW-5 was produced for the price it was, so can it happen again.

....not to mention that they can't keep up with demand for their $200k gliders, what possible incentive do they have to do this?

How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 1:36:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

When the PW5s were being built I believe the Euro was in the toilet and Eastern European wages were lagging. When introduced the HPH 304 were 25K. Why can't HPH sell them at that price anymore? First Sparrowhawks with a preproduction down payment were in that price range as well. Maybe we are suffering from double secret invisible inflation. On the other hand how many 304s, PW5s, and Sparrowhawks sold at those prices? Not enough to get anyone sane interested in building new ones. Thankfully soaring runs on the labor of the insane so there is always hope. For laughs prices from the back of America's Soaring Book published 1974: 1-26C(kit) $3,660; 1-26E $5,495; 2-33 $6,995; 2-32 $14,995; ASW-15B $9,300; Libelle $9,350; ASW-17 $14,200; Nimbus II $12,350.
Dammit why can't we have brand new $6,995 2-33s? That'd fix the decline...

That would fix the decline, along with the SSA incorporating the international rules of soaring and the supporting Grand Prix racing. Simple. Get with the rest of the world!

But since this cockamamie set of rules is "religion" to so many of you, the decline continues.

If you can't explain the way a race is won within 30 seconds or less, and the costs to compete are out of control expensive, then the demise of soaring is the fault of your own.

You are now entering the final glide for Soaring as we know it.

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 3:29:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
That would fix the decline, along with the SSA incorporating the international rules of soaring and the supporting Grand Prix racing. Simple. Get with the rest of the world!

But since this cockamamie set of rules is "religion" to so many of you, the decline continues.

If you can't explain the way a race is won within 30 seconds or less, and the costs to compete are out of control expensive, then the demise of soaring is the fault of your own.

You are now entering the final glide for Soaring as we know it.

Wrong account :-). At least I think so. Sort of hard to keep track!

-Evan / T8

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:36:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

Material cost by the pound. Labor costs by the hour. Hours are somewhat proportional to wetted area which correlates to pounds - plus mostly fixed labor hours to make all the innards. Add some overhead and a little profit for the OEM and distributor and there's your retail price.

Modern material like carbon fiber cost more per pound than plain old GRP, but you can make gliders smaller and lighter with it so if you do it right the cost goes down. Build them in a lower labor cost country with some manufacturing skills and that's about as cheap as it's gonna get. For the most part you don't save money by using an old airfoil. Sure, you can use cheaper materials if you can make the thicker wing out of GRP instead of carbon, but the whole thing gets heavier and more expensive as a result so it's a losing game these days with modern materials, modern airfoils and CFD design tools.

Take advantage of all of that and you pretty much get the GP 11 out of Poland. 39:1 max L/D and a 260 lb empty weight. Ask Tim McAllister to price you one. They make bigger ones too, but more $$.

As someone posted, building a 1980s standard-class glider today will cost about what a modern 15-meter glider costs less the flaps, which add less than $10,000 - and part of the reason why no one is building standard class gliders anymore. The old days weren't cheaper by design, they were cheaper by compounded inflation. If I take the LS-4 I bought new in 1980 for $26,000 and apply the CPI for the intervening 37 years, I end up at more than $80,000.

The only way to get a new glider for much less is to build a time machine. You can skip 40 years of inflation. Hope you saved some D-Marks though.

Andy
9B

Well, let's just say that the ASW-19, brand new in 1975 cost $25,000,
though I'm sure it was a bit more. Adjusting for inflation, that's
$116,296.72 in today's dollars ($30K inflates to $139,556.07).

Guess that sucks the wind out of your sails, huh, Wilbur? A similar
lookup could just as easily be done for the first production year of the
PW-5.

On 3/20/2017 11:36 AM, wrote:
How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

--
Dan, 5J