We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 1:36:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

When the PW5s were being built I believe the Euro was in the toilet and Eastern European wages were lagging. When introduced the HPH 304 were 25K. Why can't HPH sell them at that price anymore? First Sparrowhawks with a preproduction down payment were in that price range as well. Maybe we are suffering from double secret invisible inflation. On the other hand how many 304s, PW5s, and Sparrowhawks sold at those prices? Not enough to get anyone sane interested in building new ones. Thankfully soaring runs on the labor of the insane so there is always hope. For laughs prices from the back of America's Soaring Book published 1974: 1-26C(kit) $3,660; 1-26E $5,495; 2-33 $6,995; 2-32 $14,995; ASW-15B $9,300; Libelle $9,350; ASW-17 $14,200; Nimbus II $12,350.
Dammit why can't we have brand new $6,995 2-33s? That'd fix the decline...

That would fix the decline, along with the SSA incorporating the international rules of soaring and the supporting Grand Prix racing. Simple. Get with the rest of the world!

But since this cockamamie set of rules is "religion" to so many of you, the decline continues.

If you can't explain the way a race is won within 30 seconds or less, and the costs to compete are out of control expensive, then the demise of soaring is the fault of your own.

You are now entering the final glide for Soaring as we know it.

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 3:29:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
That would fix the decline, along with the SSA incorporating the international rules of soaring and the supporting Grand Prix racing. Simple. Get with the rest of the world!

But since this cockamamie set of rules is "religion" to so many of you, the decline continues.

If you can't explain the way a race is won within 30 seconds or less, and the costs to compete are out of control expensive, then the demise of soaring is the fault of your own.

You are now entering the final glide for Soaring as we know it.

Wrong account :-). At least I think so. Sort of hard to keep track!

-Evan / T8

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:36:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

Material cost by the pound. Labor costs by the hour. Hours are somewhat proportional to wetted area which correlates to pounds - plus mostly fixed labor hours to make all the innards. Add some overhead and a little profit for the OEM and distributor and there's your retail price.

Modern material like carbon fiber cost more per pound than plain old GRP, but you can make gliders smaller and lighter with it so if you do it right the cost goes down. Build them in a lower labor cost country with some manufacturing skills and that's about as cheap as it's gonna get. For the most part you don't save money by using an old airfoil. Sure, you can use cheaper materials if you can make the thicker wing out of GRP instead of carbon, but the whole thing gets heavier and more expensive as a result so it's a losing game these days with modern materials, modern airfoils and CFD design tools.

Take advantage of all of that and you pretty much get the GP 11 out of Poland. 39:1 max L/D and a 260 lb empty weight. Ask Tim McAllister to price you one. They make bigger ones too, but more $$.

As someone posted, building a 1980s standard-class glider today will cost about what a modern 15-meter glider costs less the flaps, which add less than $10,000 - and part of the reason why no one is building standard class gliders anymore. The old days weren't cheaper by design, they were cheaper by compounded inflation. If I take the LS-4 I bought new in 1980 for $26,000 and apply the CPI for the intervening 37 years, I end up at more than $80,000.

The only way to get a new glider for much less is to build a time machine. You can skip 40 years of inflation. Hope you saved some D-Marks though.

Andy
9B

Well, let's just say that the ASW-19, brand new in 1975 cost $25,000,
though I'm sure it was a bit more. Adjusting for inflation, that's
$116,296.72 in today's dollars ($30K inflates to $139,556.07).

Guess that sucks the wind out of your sails, huh, Wilbur? A similar
lookup could just as easily be done for the first production year of the
PW-5.

On 3/20/2017 11:36 AM, wrote:
How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

--
Dan, 5J

Since someone said the price was $19,500, that's $88,294.77 in today's
dollars. Still a bunch. For that money you could get at least a used
ASW-27 so why rebuild a '19?

On 3/20/2017 8:25 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Well, let's just say that the ASW-19, brand new in 1975 cost $25,000,
though I'm sure it was a bit more. Adjusting for inflation, that's
$116,296.72 in today's dollars ($30K inflates to $139,556.07).

Guess that sucks the wind out of your sails, huh, Wilbur? A similar
lookup could just as easily be done for the first production year of
the PW-5.

On 3/20/2017 11:36 AM, wrote:
How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market
for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable
price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?


--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:36:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Because it had a tube tailboom and did not have a T-tail.


Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

Bob K and I have discussed the possibility of getting a S-LSA certification for the HP-24. It would cost about $500,000. If that were underwritten by investors, then the HP-24 could be sold as a completed and ready-to-fly glider. There is no other mechanism that would allow for selling a glider built new in the USA. You can not certificate a new, built in the USA aircraft as Experimental-air race and demonstration.

You can not certificate a new, built in the USA aircraft as Experimental-air race and demonstration.

Wasn't this done with the few Duckhawk's that were built?

On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 12:03:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
You can not certificate a new, built in the USA aircraft as Experimental-air race and demonstration.

Wasn't this done with the few Duckhawk's that were built?

looks like the Duckhawks have Experimental - Racing Airworthiness Certificates