Letter to the FAA

https://members.gliding.co.uk/wp-con...nal-online.pdf

The British Gliding Association keeps tabs on tow upsets, but here in the US we tend to sweep these events under the rug lest we find ourselves being scrutinized by the FAA. The SSA should be taking on the role that the BGA has, but once again, nobody wants to upset the apple cart. I'd love to see an SSA ASAP system for reporting safety events for review without putting anyone in jeopardy for self-disclosure.

Walt has a legitimate concern based on events that were potentially fatal to him, the tow pilot. In reality, there are very few options to get anything done about it. He lost his job over his concerns for his and other tow pilots' safety. Think about that for a few minutes. He had two major tow upsets, one at very low altitude, and is now compelled to investigate and report the failings in our current systems and practices. Will it amount to much from the FAA? I doubt it. Why? The NTSB only cares if there is blood on the ground. The FAA only cares if someone can make a name for him/herself for taking a noticable action against an operator (in my opinion.) The NASA ASRS reporting system is a nice, feel-good program that accomplishes nothing. Scares and almost-accidents do not get much attention unless it makes the news.

The fear of the FAA reading one report and suddenly deciding this is the issue of the year to be resolved is naive. Until there is a pattern of fatalies, it will not get much attention. It's our responsibility to periodically re-evaluate how we do things and make the changes ahead of the FAA, not in response to the FAA.

I would think the Soaring Safety Foundation would be interested in a comprehensive dialog about this issue. I'm perplexed that the proposed solution to a mechanical design flaw is just "more training". Let's shed the emotion and take a serious look at the facts in these events and properly investigate whether it is a significant safety issue or not.

Paul Agnew

I, and likely others, understand that there is a potential here for problems.
Yes, there are fixes, some cheaper/easier than others.
Yes, being on the wrong end during an upset can make a person more adamant about fix. You ARE the PIC, so you have a say in every flight. If it's wrong for you, then don't do it.

Maybe SSA or SSF need to do a blind survey (similar to a NASA report) to find out how many "close ones" there were along with actual incidents, fatal or not.
Then you have some numbers to work with.
You would also have some ammo to at least "strongly suggest" at least inverting a "poor hitch" to lessen the issue.

To get the FAA involved, regardless of intent, I feel is wrong. There are times to get them going, I don't think this is one of them.

..

Paul Agnew,

Paul, please email me at or contact me at 407-325-6500 regarding Walt's termination. Your post has incorrect information and I do not feel it is appropriate to share my answer to everyone on Rec Soaring. Walt is a friend and was a loyal employee at Seminole Lake for nearly 3 years. He deserves his privacy in this matter.

Best Regards,
Rich Owen
Vice President
Seminole Flying & Soaring

In other words, your saying, let's not talk about Seminole Lake Gliderport terminating poor Walt for bringing up safety concerns after 2 near accidents. That's clearly a deflection to avoid embarrassment.

If you want to deflect the conversation, then let's talk about how contestants violate airspace regulations and get penalized 1,060 points. What lessons can we learn from that too??

Perhaps a letter to the SSA is in order to block contest sanctioning to gliderports that have a know history of disregarding legitimate safety concerns. Maybe there are safer operations available that can host the 18M nationals?

We don't know your name and I'm sure you won't email me to find the real story. When Walt brought up the issue we researched all factors and then made the decision to switch to Tost release systems on our towplanes. The safety of all the pilots that operate out of Seminole Lake, which includes our employees and staff, is our number one concern. Walt made a good case and we thought he was right. The Tost hooks are on back order but we expect to have them our ships within 4 weeks. We have spoken to our instructors and reviewed our procedures for losing sight of the towplanes/out of position on tow. We had the same conversation with our tow pilots. The staff here are professionals and take there job very seriously. They also read Rec Aviation Soaring and are getting frustrated that a small number of anonymous posters make comments that sully their reputation. I hope you do write the SSA so you will finally be out in the open. Our employees would like an opportunity to discuss the good we do for the sport.

Rich Owen

Rich,

Wilbur Wright is another Sean alias.

I'll be interested to know if he's willing to deny his aliases to your face..

2C

On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 2:55:35 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
We don't know your name and I'm sure you won't email me to find the real story. When Walt brought up the issue we researched all factors and then made the decision to switch to Tost release systems on our towplanes. The safety of all the pilots that operate out of Seminole Lake, which includes our employees and staff, is our number one concern. Walt made a good case and we thought he was right. The Tost hooks are on back order but we expect to have them our ships within 4 weeks. We have spoken to our instructors and reviewed our procedures for losing sight of the towplanes/out of position on tow. We had the same conversation with our tow pilots. The staff here are professionals and take there job very seriously. They also read Rec Aviation Soaring and are getting frustrated that a small number of anonymous posters make comments that sully their reputation. I hope you do write the SSA so you will finally be out in the open. Our employees would like an opportunity to discuss the good we do for the sport.

Rich Owen

On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 2:02:57 PM UTC-4, Kevin Christner wrote:
Rich,

Wilbur Wright is another Sean alias.

I'll be interested to know if he's willing to deny his aliases to your face.

2C

On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 2:55:35 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
We don't know your name and I'm sure you won't email me to find the real story. When Walt brought up the issue we researched all factors and then made the decision to switch to Tost release systems on our towplanes. The safety of all the pilots that operate out of Seminole Lake, which includes our employees and staff, is our number one concern. Walt made a good case and we thought he was right. The Tost hooks are on back order but we expect to have them our ships within 4 weeks. We have spoken to our instructors and reviewed our procedures for losing sight of the towplanes/out of position on tow. We had the same conversation with our tow pilots. The staff here are professionals and take there job very seriously. They also read Rec Aviation Soaring and are getting frustrated that a small number of anonymous posters make comments that sully their reputation. I hope you do write the SSA so you will finally be out in the open. Our employees would like an opportunity to discuss the good we do for the sport.

Rich Owen

Hey Kevin. You and I need to have a face to face talk and sort your fantasy out.

Rich and I are fine, trust me.

We all know that Wilbur is your fantasy and that you have no life other than writing posts as Wilbur. You are obsessed with me, have been for a long time and are complete loser. You are creepy. You are also entirely irrelevant to all of these competition conversations. Yet you inject yourself into them constantly.

I honestly feel sorry for you.

If you disagree I am happy to talk about it. Just name the time and place. I will be there. Enough playing around.

Sean Fidler

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 3:45:55 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 2:02:57 PM UTC-4, Kevin Christner wrote:
Rich,

Wilbur Wright is another Sean alias.

I'll be interested to know if he's willing to deny his aliases to your face.

2C

On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 2:55:35 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
We don't know your name and I'm sure you won't email me to find the real story. When Walt brought up the issue we researched all factors and then made the decision to switch to Tost release systems on our towplanes. The safety of all the pilots that operate out of Seminole Lake, which includes our employees and staff, is our number one concern. Walt made a good case and we thought he was right. The Tost hooks are on back order but we expect to have them our ships within 4 weeks. We have spoken to our instructors and reviewed our procedures for losing sight of the towplanes/out of position on tow. We had the same conversation with our tow pilots. The staff here are professionals and take there job very seriously. They also read Rec Aviation Soaring and are getting frustrated that a small number of anonymous posters make comments that sully their reputation. I hope you do write the SSA so you will finally be out in the open. Our employees would like an opportunity to discuss the good we do for the sport.

Rich Owen

Hey Kevin. You and I need to have a face to face talk and sort your fantasy out.

Rich and I are fine, trust me.

We all know that Wilbur is your fantasy and that you have no life other than writing posts as Wilbur. You are obsessed with me, have been for a long time and are complete loser. You are creepy. You are also entirely irrelevant to all of these competition conversations. Yet you inject yourself into them constantly.

I honestly feel sorry for you.

If you disagree I am happy to talk about it. Just name the time and place. I will be there. Enough playing around.

Sean Fidler

Awesome. When the three of you get together and compare catheter sizes, be sure and let us all know how it worked out, 'kay?

T8

On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 12:19:11 PM UTC-6, wrote:
In other words, your saying, let's not talk about Seminole Lake Gliderport terminating poor Walt for bringing up safety concerns after 2 near accidents. That's clearly a deflection to avoid embarrassment.

If you want to deflect the conversation, then let's talk about how contestants violate airspace regulations and get penalized 1,060 points. What lessons can we learn from that too??

Perhaps a letter to the SSA is in order to block contest sanctioning to gliderports that have a know history of disregarding legitimate safety concerns. Maybe there are safer operations available that can host the 18M nationals?

Wilbur, no one violated FAA airspace per the penalty you speak of. Its a SSA contest overfly penalty. The lesson learned is once again you speak with your head in the darkness of your ass.

Best. #711.

How can anyone be taken seriously who doesn't know the difference
between "your" and "you're"? Or "its" and "It's", or used double (and
more) punctuation marks? Or uses "their" instead of "his" (except when
the gender is known to be feminine) in the singular case? And all the
while using an alias to hide his identity?

Didn't listen to your English teacher?

And yes, I know several of the above are sentence fragments.

On 5/25/2017 12:19 PM, wrote:
In other words, your saying, let's not talk about Seminole Lake Gliderport terminating poor Walt for bringing up safety concerns after 2 near accidents. That's clearly a deflection to avoid embarrassment.

If you want to deflect the conversation, then let's talk about how contestants violate airspace regulations and get penalized 1,060 points. What lessons can we learn from that too??

Perhaps a letter to the SSA is in order to block contest sanctioning to gliderports that have a know history of disregarding legitimate safety concerns. Maybe there are safer operations available that can host the 18M nationals?

--
Dan, 5J