Cordele...hello?

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 12:32:53 AM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Actually, no I didn't, I have commented here on RAS about lack of contest info before. At times I have been told to check out a Facebook page, why? There is already places to provide info through the SSA site.

I understand it is a volunteer undertaking and someone needs to take the time. Thus, I appreciate it when someone does.

Charlie, you are 100% correct about it being a volunteer thing; those who do have all my appreciation and respect.

Musings:

(1) First and foremost, the SSA does not support or encourage "real time" contest reporting. Nothing is going to change until the SSA or a SIG gets behind the effort. The SSA should encouraged organizers to do as much "social media" as they can and provide simple "how to" guidelines using current social media trends. Improving contest reporting should be a universal worldwide effort.

(2) The SSA website just does not meet the need in today's social media world. SSA website input access is restricted to a few people, it is usually dependent on a fixed single computer having an internet connection, and it does not support easy integration of pictures or video. Depending on the SSA website for anything other than scoring and flight logs increases the burden of the contest staff and it usually results in a delayed report, if any.

(3) The "what’s going on" aspect of contest reporting is better served by cell phone based social media such as Facebook. To the best of my limited understanding, having a Facebook "group" is the best current ticket. It is cell phone based and does not depend on an internet connection. Any member of the "group" on or off site may interact. Posts are only received by "group members" so posters are not inhibited with concern of sending stuff to uninterested parties or broadcasting something to the Facebook world. It easily accommodates pictures and videos. But most important, it takes the burden off the contest staff and allows those on-site to share the reporting. Today's youngsters are tomorrow's future of the soaring; the soaring movement would be better served communicating by their information "norms".

(4) Just as interest in sport and competition soaring is dwindling so is the interest in people willing to volunteer to staff a contest. Who wants to give up their wherewithal and put forth the labor so the more fortunate can play? The current way is "you" take the risk, "you" put forth all the effort and maybe I'll pay to enter. Allowing this status quo to continue calculates to competition soaring coming to a quicker death. Survival depends on competitors willing to pay higher entry fees to provide "paid staff" or simpler contest operation staffed by its entrants. (There you go Wilbur -- served on a silver platter.)

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 10:31:37 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 12:32:53 AM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Actually, no I didn't, I have commented here on RAS about lack of contest info before. At times I have been told to check out a Facebook page, why? There is already places to provide info through the SSA site.

I understand it is a volunteer undertaking and someone needs to take the time. Thus, I appreciate it when someone does.

Charlie, you are 100% correct about it being a volunteer thing; those who do have all my appreciation and respect.

Musings:

(1) First and foremost, the SSA does not support or encourage "real time" contest reporting. Nothing is going to change until the SSA or a SIG gets behind the effort. The SSA should encouraged organizers to do as much "social media" as they can and provide simple "how to" guidelines using current social media trends. Improving contest reporting should be a universal worldwide effort.

The contest manager has access to post pictures and reports. I do not know if she assigned a reporter or found a volunteer. She also can post to the SSA FB page. They may be another that can do the same, but probably won't until asked. Real time reporting is up to the contest organizers and community largely. I'm not aware that the SSA has registered an opinion one way or the other. As an SSA director, I can't recall a member contacting me about the issue. Among some directors, we have discussed it.

(2) The SSA website just does not meet the need in today's social media world. SSA website input access is restricted to a few people, it is usually dependent on a fixed single computer having an internet connection, and it does not support easy integration of pictures or video. Depending on the SSA website for anything other than scoring and flight logs increases the burden of the contest staff and it usually results in a delayed report, if any.

The Facebook timeline is embedded into the SSA website home page as are the favorites list on the SSA Youtube channel. Twitter is widely used in Europe and Canada by clubs and the national organizations and is under utilized by clubs and commercial operators in the US. The SSA, like other national soaring organizations, generates little original social media content but shares widely and hopefully aggregates content from around the US and International soaring community. This is generally the work of volunteers. Staff does post, shares, and suggests posts, but there is precious little staff time to spend on social media content. The SSA is largely a voluntary non-profit organization. The SSA web site is a membership website. Each SSA member has a area to post, as does each committee. Perhaps for lack of explicit training or for other reasons, members don't over utilize this feature.. With a feed reader, a member can subscribe to the RSS feed for area of interest and be notified of new posts to the web site in that area. FWIW, A feed reader is one of the few apps on my smart phone. I leave Twitter and FB to my desktops.
(3) The "what’s going on" aspect of contest reporting is better served by cell phone based social media such as Facebook. To the best of my limited understanding, having a Facebook "group" is the best current ticket.. It is cell phone based and does not depend on an internet connection. Any member of the "group" on or off site may interact. Posts are only received by "group members" so posters are not inhibited with concern of sending stuff to uninterested parties or broadcasting something to the Facebook world.. It easily accommodates pictures and videos. But most important, it takes the burden off the contest staff and allows those on-site to share the reporting. Today's youngsters are tomorrow's future of the soaring; the soaring movement would be better served communicating by their information "norms"..
In your opinion. I much prefer live tracking on contests on the big screen..
The contest community is welcomed to do just that or come up with a proposal. FB Groups require membership to be notified. Organizational FB groups exist, some private, most public. However, an organization such as the SSA cannot join a group, therefore cannot receive group posts. Individuals can join groups, then re-post interesting posts, if public. Makes it a time consuming two step process. If you manage several FB pages, it wasn't possible to switch pages until more recently from a Smart Phone.

(4) Just as interest in sport and competition soaring is dwindling so is the interest in people willing to volunteer to staff a contest. Who wants to give up their wherewithal and put forth the labor so the more fortunate can play? The current way is "you" take the risk, "you" put forth all the effort and maybe I'll pay to enter. Allowing this status quo to continue calculates to competition soaring coming to a quicker death. Survival depends on competitors willing to pay higher entry fees to provide "paid staff" or simpler contest operation staffed by its entrants. (There you go Wilbur -- served on a silver platter.)

Sort of all over the place. There are a number of social, economic, and financial factors for that in the US. Although I haven't flown gliders in the UK in over 20 years, the soaring culture was quite different and AFAICT, that difference remains, to the detriment of US soaring and racing.

Cell and Internet access at many soaring spots and contest venues can be poor. Internet even more to when 50-60 additional users are engaged. It's amazing how much bandwidth phones and laptops use when connecting and syncing a couple of IMAP e-mail accounts. This makes reporting frustrating at times according to some of those who've expressed this frustration. Real time tracking and reporting has some infra-structure challenges. But again, no proposals on the agenda yet.

Frank Whiteley

My latest FB post:This is typically the point in a big contest where I post pics of the launch grid to give my non-flying friends a sense of what it's like, and to frustrate my flying friends with what they're missing. Hahaha.. We've been grounded for 4 days (including the last practice day) and it's still raining. We are promised good wx tomorrow...if we can get our vehicles across the swamp that is rapidly overtaking the airport. My trailer, 2nd from left, is still above water but I'm headed to Home Depot for sandbags just in case." (with depressing photo of overcast and mudflats to rival anything I've seen since my last trip to the Sea of Hobbs in 2010).

Now you know everything you need to.

JB

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 9:31:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 12:32:53 AM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Actually, no I didn't, I have commented here on RAS about lack of contest info before. At times I have been told to check out a Facebook page, why? There is already places to provide info through the SSA site.

I understand it is a volunteer undertaking and someone needs to take the time. Thus, I appreciate it when someone does.

Charlie, you are 100% correct about it being a volunteer thing; those who do have all my appreciation and respect.

Musings:

(1) First and foremost, the SSA does not support or encourage "real time" contest reporting. Nothing is going to change until the SSA or a SIG gets behind the effort. The SSA should encouraged organizers to do as much "social media" as they can and provide simple "how to" guidelines using current social media trends. Improving contest reporting should be a universal worldwide effort.

(2) The SSA website just does not meet the need in today's social media world. SSA website input access is restricted to a few people, it is usually dependent on a fixed single computer having an internet connection, and it does not support easy integration of pictures or video. Depending on the SSA website for anything other than scoring and flight logs increases the burden of the contest staff and it usually results in a delayed report, if any.

(3) The "what’s going on" aspect of contest reporting is better served by cell phone based social media such as Facebook. To the best of my limited understanding, having a Facebook "group" is the best current ticket.. It is cell phone based and does not depend on an internet connection. Any member of the "group" on or off site may interact. Posts are only received by "group members" so posters are not inhibited with concern of sending stuff to uninterested parties or broadcasting something to the Facebook world.. It easily accommodates pictures and videos. But most important, it takes the burden off the contest staff and allows those on-site to share the reporting. Today's youngsters are tomorrow's future of the soaring; the soaring movement would be better served communicating by their information "norms"..

(4) Just as interest in sport and competition soaring is dwindling so is the interest in people willing to volunteer to staff a contest. Who wants to give up their wherewithal and put forth the labor so the more fortunate can play? The current way is "you" take the risk, "you" put forth all the effort and maybe I'll pay to enter. Allowing this status quo to continue calculates to competition soaring coming to a quicker death. Survival depends on competitors willing to pay higher entry fees to provide "paid staff" or simpler contest operation staffed by its entrants. (There you go Wilbur -- served on a silver platter.)

Please DO NOT use Facebook or other viral proprietary media for this. A simple web page using free BBS type software would be far preferable. The current SSA website is preferable, if a little clunky. I did the posting for our area contest last year, and it is a fair amount of work - nothing to do with the media, but you must generate the content as you are trying to get ready to fly, or at the end of a long day. Logging in and copying it to the SSA site is a trivial part of the task. I did it the next morning, but then it isn't as timely as some would like. If this goes to facebook I will not read it, and will not post.

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 10:39:30 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 9:31:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 12:32:53 AM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Actually, no I didn't, I have commented here on RAS about lack of contest info before. At times I have been told to check out a Facebook page, why? There is already places to provide info through the SSA site.

I understand it is a volunteer undertaking and someone needs to take the time. Thus, I appreciate it when someone does.

Charlie, you are 100% correct about it being a volunteer thing; those who do have all my appreciation and respect.

Musings:

(1) First and foremost, the SSA does not support or encourage "real time" contest reporting. Nothing is going to change until the SSA or a SIG gets behind the effort. The SSA should encouraged organizers to do as much "social media" as they can and provide simple "how to" guidelines using current social media trends. Improving contest reporting should be a universal worldwide effort.

(2) The SSA website just does not meet the need in today's social media world. SSA website input access is restricted to a few people, it is usually dependent on a fixed single computer having an internet connection, and it does not support easy integration of pictures or video. Depending on the SSA website for anything other than scoring and flight logs increases the burden of the contest staff and it usually results in a delayed report, if any.

(3) The "what’s going on" aspect of contest reporting is better served by cell phone based social media such as Facebook. To the best of my limited understanding, having a Facebook "group" is the best current ticket. It is cell phone based and does not depend on an internet connection. Any member of the "group" on or off site may interact. Posts are only received by "group members" so posters are not inhibited with concern of sending stuff to uninterested parties or broadcasting something to the Facebook world. It easily accommodates pictures and videos. But most important, it takes the burden off the contest staff and allows those on-site to share the reporting. Today's youngsters are tomorrow's future of the soaring; the soaring movement would be better served communicating by their information "norms".

(4) Just as interest in sport and competition soaring is dwindling so is the interest in people willing to volunteer to staff a contest. Who wants to give up their wherewithal and put forth the labor so the more fortunate can play? The current way is "you" take the risk, "you" put forth all the effort and maybe I'll pay to enter. Allowing this status quo to continue calculates to competition soaring coming to a quicker death. Survival depends on competitors willing to pay higher entry fees to provide "paid staff" or simpler contest operation staffed by its entrants. (There you go Wilbur -- served on a silver platter.)

Please DO NOT use Facebook or other viral proprietary media for this. A simple web page using free BBS type software would be far preferable. The current SSA website is preferable, if a little clunky. I did the posting for our area contest last year, and it is a fair amount of work - nothing to do with the media, but you must generate the content as you are trying to get ready to fly, or at the end of a long day. Logging in and copying it to the SSA site is a trivial part of the task. I did it the next morning, but then it isn't as timely as some would like. If this goes to facebook I will not read it, and will not post.

I second this request. I oppose the idea that every citizen must have a Facebook account, only to learn after some time how much private information has been hacked, sold, used against me.
Tom BravoMike

It's the end of the National Championship for 3 classes. Not one single word posted on the SSA website for the last 3 days from the contest management.

Other contests are giving a video update each day to interview the winners. So it's not too much to ask that the contest management at least post one paragraph to update those of us across the country who are interested.

Someone please tell Andrea that we appreciate her reports, but they need to be done daily.

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 4:48:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
It's the end of the National Championship for 3 classes. Not one single word posted on the SSA website for the last 3 days from the contest management.

Other contests are giving a video update each day to interview the winners. So it's not too much to ask that the contest management at least post one paragraph to update those of us across the country who are interested.

Someone please tell Andrea that we appreciate her reports, but they need to be done daily.

Not sure what we could have reported about on the days when it was raining at sunrise, raining during the pilots meeting, raining at grid time, and raining at sunset.

I would have liked to have posted stuff every day, but I just ran out of energy around midnight most days. The CD gig can is busy all by itself, but some of us also have day jobs that required attention, even when we are away at a contest. I know Andreea was even busier than me. Ditto for the rest of contest management.

It's never too much to ask someone else to do something.

All,

I would like to publicly thank the organizers and support team in Cordele. They did a truly outstanding job. This event was extraordinarily well organized and their carefully managed relationship with the city and local government was a masterclass which will provide us all a contest venue for many years to come. The organizers deserve nothing but praise and thanks. They were simply amazing from the pre-contest communications to the award banquet. They were also way beyond excellent behind the scenes with countless small touches and highly successful relationship building efforts.

In regards to informational updates, they were all over social media. They did a fantastic job with updates. Social media is powerful, successful and preferred because it doesn't necessarily rely on one source. It allows for a "community of content." In addition to the many live videos and updates produced by the outstanding Cordele organizers (and SSA helpers on-site), many of the competing pilots, their wives, their friends and their crews in attendance provided regular social media commentary, live videos, photos and updates on their own social media (Twitter, Facebook pages or YouTube) channels.

Banging yours fists on the table and saying "you want updates" but that you "don't want to subscribe to social media" is like saying you want safety but don't refuse to wear seat-belts, helmets or follow any check-lists. It makes no sense.

The reason the contest you desire is well covered on Social media (and not so much on the SSA webpage) is because social media is extremely easy to share (a live video is begun in seconds from a mobile phone). Updating a stale traditional website with links to a constant flow of new content and updates is NOT easy to share. In fact, as a fairly experienced contest organizer, the idea of updating a website to keep on par with social media absolutely sucks. This is why it doesn't get done. So you flat earth folks need to make a choice. Move into the 21st century or don't get updates. Ask someone to help you set up an account. If you can use google you can view social media.

In my opinion each SSA soaring contest should set up (takes 3 minutes, tops) its own contest Facebook page (example: https://m.facebook.com/FAISailplaneGrandPrixUSA/) and all interested parties can add and view content there.. Then the SSA Facebook page can simply share the highlights. Better yet, the SSA website "results and reports" page should simply feature a news feed from each contests Facebook page (welcome to 2015). Then even those who "refuse to participate in social media" can still see the Facebook contest page newsfeed content (deep inhale, slow long exhale, shaking head, sigh 😔).

This really isn't a difficult problem. Let's stop pretending that it is difficult or a problem.

And again, thanks to the Cordele organizers for everything that they did to host a wonderful contest.

Sean

Agree 100%. The contest organizers and volunteers did an absolutely
superb job. I watched Andrea trying to post pictures to the SSA website
one evening and I couldn't help but cringe, it was a time consuming and
cumbersome process compared to any of social media platforms.

Thanks to everyone at Cordele for all the time and effort you put in to
make it a memorable and fun event despite the dismal weather. A special
note of thanks to the CD Wally Berry for calling 3 assigned tasks on the
good weather days and saving the turn area tasks for the days with
uncertain conditions - in my opinion this is how it should be done.


Luke Szczepaniak

OK, so there were many other places with contest info, why not link them into the SSA contest page so those of us that use that have a way to find the others?
Being "staff" on a few automotive sites, I don't have issues there posting info/links but have never posted to the SSA site. Maybe it is a PITA.

For me, and likely others, finding all these alternative contest info sites is a PITA, maybe if they were easier to find, others may use them.

As an aside, while a lot won't use RAS, "711" does post up with a link to his info so at least I can find it here. For others following contests (or other adventures) RAS could be OK, but links through SSA would also be nice.