Could the Press Grow a Spine?

In message ,
Steve Hix writes
In article ,
(Fred the Red Shirt) wrote:
Whom did Kerry ever stab in the back?

How about pretty much every single person serving in the military during
the late '60s and early '70s.

That's got to be one sore knife arm he's got there. Even if it seems
most of his victims survived.

Did he personally stab _everyone_ in _every_ military? I know a fair few
UK folk who were serving at the time, who never mentioned having some
Yank with political ambitions jab them in the back with anything sharp.

Indeed, if he was going around stabbing North Vietnamese, Red Russian
and Yellow Chinese military in the back, doesn't that make him a hero?


Okay, maybe you assumed that only the United States has a military, fair
enough. Is the new test for "were you really in the US military" showing
the scar where Kerry personally stabbed you? No scar, no service?

(Can't abide the guy, personally, but I don't think he's actually knifed
many people - there's more than enough to knock him for without
inventing stuff.)

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

In article ,
"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message ,
Steve Hix writes
In article ,
(Fred the Red Shirt) wrote:
Whom did Kerry ever stab in the back?

How about pretty much every single person serving in the military during
the late '60s and early '70s.

That's got to be one sore knife arm he's got there. Even if it seems
most of his victims survived.

Did he personally stab _everyone_ in _every_ military? [snip]

I didn't think that a clearly non-literal statement needed to be
qualified to make sure nobody assumed that non-American servicepeople
were included.

Just in case it still isn't clear, he knifed them figuratively by
claiming that war crimes against civilians were the normal course of
business, and that officers knew about it and approved of it.

Steve Hix wrote in message ...
In article ,
"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

[Attributions deleted for brevity]

Whom did Kerry ever stab in the back?

How about pretty much every single person serving in the military during
the late '60s and early '70s.


... he knifed them figuratively by
claiming that war crimes against civilians were the normal course of
business [in Vietnam], and that officers knew about it and approved
of it.

Thank you for your prompt and courteous reply. That is pretty much
what I thought you meant but it would not have been polite of me act
on that presumption without first verifying it with you.

Shall we extend a similar courtesy to Kerry and try to find a
direct quote, rather then relying on your memory and your
paraphrasal? I want to discuss EXACTLY that statement or those
statements by Kerry to which you object.

I found this page and have extracted some material which might
be what you're talking about. I encourage the reader to
go to that page themself, so as to understand the proper context
of the remarks:

http://www.c-span.org/vote2004/jkerrytestimony.asp

Legislative Proposals Relating to the War in Southeast
Asia Thursday, April 22, 1971 United States Senate,
Committee on Foreign Relations, Washington, D.C.


The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:05 a.m.,
in Room 4221, New Senate Office Building, Senator J. W.
Fulbright (Chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Fulbright,
Symington, Pell, Aiken, Case and Javits

....

Statement of John Kerry, Vietnam Veterans Against the War

Mr. Kerry: Thank you very much, Senator Fulbright, Senator
Javits, Senator Symington, Senator Pell. I would like to
say for the record, and also for the men behind me who are
also wearing the uniforms and their medals, that my sitting
here is really symbolic. I am not here as John Kerry. I
am here as one member of the group of veterans in this
country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at
this table they would be here and have the same kind of
testimony.

I would simply like to speak in very general terms. I
apologize if my statement is general because I received
notification yesterday you would hear me and I am afraid
because of the injunction I was up most of the night and
haven't had a great deal of chance to prepare.


Winter soldier Investigation

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans,
and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an
investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged
and many very highly decorated veterans testified to
war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated
incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis
with the full awareness of officers at all levels of
command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did
happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings
of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam,
but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what
this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped,
cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable
telephones to human genitals and turned up the power,
cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians,
razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan,
shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and
generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in
addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and
very particular ravaging which is done by the applied
bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the "Winter Soldier Investigation."
The term "Winter Soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine
in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime
soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was
rough.

We who have come here to Washington have come here because
we feel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come
back to this country; we could be quiet; we could hold
our silence; we could not tell what went on in Vietnam,
but we feel because of what threatens this country, the
fact that the crimes threaten it, no reds, and not redcoats
but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it,
that we have to speak out.

....

Extent of Problem of Vietnam War

We are here in Washington also to say that the problem
of this war is not just a question of war and diplomacy.
It is part and parcel of everything that we are trying
as human beings to communicate to people in this country,
the question of racism, which is rampant in the military,
and so many other questions also, the use of weapons, the
hypocrisy in our taking umbrage in the Geneva Conventions
and using that as justification for a continuation of this
war, when we are more guilty than any other body of violations
of those Geneva Conventions, in the use of free fire zones,
harassment interdiction fire, search and destroy missions,
the bombings, the torture of prisoners, the killing of
prisoners, accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam.
That is what we are trying to say. It is party and parcel
of everything.

....

end quoted material

Now, I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this transcript,
but am willing, for the sake of this discussion, to accept it
as accurate for the moment. Have I found the words spoken by
Kerry, that led you to say:

he knifed them figuratively by
claiming that war crimes against civilians were the normal course of
business [in Vietnam], and that officers knew about it and approved
of it.

If not, could you find them for us?

--

FF