Letter to the FAA

The argument that low tow might substantially decrease the chances of tug upsets is limited. As was pointed out by a previous poster this might only increase the chance to react by half a second. My personal experience is that in a sudden kiting situation it's happened before you could react. If it is a slowly evolving circumstance you might have a chance to release. There is an altitude below which the outcome will be disastrous no matter what kind of hook is being used.

In my two experiences both gliders had nose hooks. While the CG hook might enhance the kiting incident the nose hook requirements are not going to eliminate it. While I am all for extra training and vigilance the bottom line is that the human element is still in the picture and humans make mistakes even with the best of training. One moment of failure to pay attention on the part of the glider pilot can result in the death or serious injury of the tow pilot.

The Schweizer hook is well documented to be incapable of releasing the glider under certan circumstances. The Tost hook on the other hand does not seem to have these limitations. In virtually every document I have read regarding this it states, "In some towhook systems, the high pressure loading on the towhook causes towhook seizure, and the tow pilot may not be able to release the towline from the towplane. This situation can be critical if it occurs at altitudes below 500 feet above ground level (AGL). Upon losing sight of the towplane, the glider pilot must release immediately." For this reason it is beyond my ability to comprehend why Schweizer hooks are still in use. At a minimum they should be inverted and the release handle should be such that olympic level calesthenics are not necessary for actuation.

My letter is nearing completion and I fully intend to submit it to the FAA. Will it cause disruption to the sport? Perhaps, but the fact is that the SSA and their assigns have demonstrated to me that they are unwilling to step forward in the name of safety and act.

Walt

Step away from this Walter. Establish your own limitation, what you will accept.
Allow others the same. Trust me on this.

Romeo

Originally Posted by Retting

Step away from this Walter. Establish your own limitation, what you will accept.
Allow others the same. Trust me on this.

Romeo

Romeo, Romeo....

I have already stepped further away than I have wanted to but trust ME on this. If YOU had found yourself 300 feet in the air dangling from a tow rope attached to a glider and unable to release while at full power headed right to the dirt YOU WOULD BE ON MY SIDE IN SPADES. PERIOD, END OF STORY.

WALT

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 9:43:20 PM UTC+3, Walt Connelly wrote:
The argument that low tow might substantially decrease the chances of
tug upsets is limited. As was pointed out by a previous poster this
might only increase the chance to react by half a second. My personal
experience is that in a sudden kiting situation it's happened before you
could react. If it is a slowly evolving circumstance you might have a
chance to release. There is an altitude below which the outcome will be
disastrous no matter what kind of hook is being used.

In my two experiences both gliders had nose hooks. While the CG hook
might enhance the kiting incident the nose hook requirements are not
going to eliminate it. While I am all for extra training and vigilance
the bottom line is that the human element is still in the picture and
humans make mistakes even with the best of training. One moment of
failure to pay attention on the part of the glider pilot can result in
the death or serious injury of the tow pilot.

The Schweizer hook is well documented to be incapable of releasing the
glider under certan circumstances. The Tost hook on the other hand does
not seem to have these limitations. In virtually every document I have
read regarding this it states, "In some towhook systems, the high
pressure loading on the towhook causes towhook seizure, and the tow
pilot may not be able to release the towline from the towplane. This
situation can be critical if it occurs at altitudes below 500 feet above
ground level (AGL). Upon losing sight of the towplane, the glider pilot
must release immediately." For this reason it is beyond my ability to
comprehend why Schweizer hooks are still in use. At a minimum they
should be inverted and the release handle should be such that olympic
level calesthenics are not necessary for actuation.

My letter is nearing completion and I fully intend to submit it to the
FAA. Will it cause disruption to the sport? Perhaps, but the fact is
that the SSA and their assigns have demonstrated to me that they are
unwilling to step forward in the name of safety and act.

Like others here, I don't have any expectation that involving the FAA will have any good results, and almost certainly not net good results. Quite the opposite.

If I were you, I'd send off a few dozen friendly and informative letters with your experiences and concerns addressed to "The Chief Tow Pilot" at every US gliding organisation I could find the address of.

Walt, I understand your desire to help here, but I don't feel this is the way to help. At our club we have 3 towplanes, 2 with tost releases, and one with a Schweizer. Why not all 3, THE FAA! It would be a piece of cake to come up with an appropriate mount for a tost hook on our L-19, but the FAA makes it difficult. As others have suggested, working to make the installation of the tost hook easier, rather than trying to make it harder to use a Schweizer release, would be far more useful. It would require more effort than a letter, but would be very benifisal to the community.

Please consider an alternative course of action.

RR

Originally Posted by RR

Walt, I understand your desire to help here, but I don't feel this is the way to help. At our club we have 3 towplanes, 2 with tost releases, and one with a Schweizer. Why not all 3, THE FAA! It would be a piece of cake to come up with an appropriate mount for a tost hook on our L-19, but the FAA makes it difficult. As others have suggested, working to make the installation of the tost hook easier, rather than trying to make it harder to use a Schweizer release, would be far more useful. It would require more effort than a letter, but would be very benifisal to the community.

Please consider an alternative course of action.

RR

RR,

The reason my letter (originally a scathing report which I have been told by a college expository writing/English composition teacher was much too long to keep the attention of the average government employee) hasn't gone in is my desire to impact the soaring public as little as possible. Believe me, had I wanted to be an ALPHA HOTEL I could have easily done so. I am not an A&P, I would think that those who are and who frequent the glider world would have a much better chance of working to make the Tost hook installation easier.

Walt

Here's a thought experiment. It's based on having read the NTSB report for every single accident and fatal accident in soaring over several decades.

Presume that the desired action here is for the FAA to ground towplanes with Schweizer hooks until such time as they are replaced. Further presume that the process will take from weeks to forever - for some towplanes where it is either cost prohibitive or where there is no FAA-approved solution.

If some portion of those grounded towplanes restrict the ability of clubs or commercial operators to launch gliders for anywhere from weeks to forever, then it stands to reason, based on the relative probability of a fatality due to kiting versus the probability of a fatality flying gliders generally, that the most significant live-saving impact of this action would be from simply stopping glider pilots from flying gliders.

I'm not saying if that's a good thing or a bad thing overall. Saving lives is a good thing. It's just a question of what the cost is to get there and whether the view is worth the climb.

Feel free to make assertions about the probabilities. People generally are terrible at estimating the probabilities of rare events. They tend to elevate the probabilities of the risks they think they can control and underestimate the probabilities of the risks they can't control. It leads to the illusion of control - which is comforting.

Andy Blackburn
9B

You want to help save towpilots? Write articles for soaring magazine discussing towing safety(not just preaching an equipment solution.) Collect all STCs and 337s for Tost hooks for every plane that has ever towed a glider, build a webpage and put the info there. Add estimated costs of conversions and parts suppliers for the different airplanes. Once you have that info out in the world ask Tost if they'd do a group towhook discount if a bunch of US clubs purchased hooks at the same time. Then organize said group buy. If you collected the info so clubs knew that a Tost conversion cost X, info and parts came from Y, and it will take Z time to complete a lot of more them would make the switch. Or you could hide under the ruse of safety and cry to the gov't to exact revenge on the soaring community for scaring you. The only request to the FAA that would improve towing safety would be asking them to go easy on Tost hook 337s same as they do for shoulder belt installations. But this isn't about safety, no one believes that BS Walt.

So much well thought out logic wasted.

Has anyone considered that Walt might, just might, be Lennie reincarnated?

On 6/22/2017 6:13 AM, wrote:
You want to help save towpilots? Write articles for soaring magazine discussing towing safety(not just preaching an equipment solution.) Collect all STCs and 337s for Tost hooks for every plane that has ever towed a glider, build a webpage and put the info there. Add estimated costs of conversions and parts suppliers for the different airplanes. Once you have that info out in the world ask Tost if they'd do a group towhook discount if a bunch of US clubs purchased hooks at the same time. Then organize said group buy. If you collected the info so clubs knew that a Tost conversion cost X, info and parts came from Y, and it will take Z time to complete a lot of more them would make the switch. Or you could hide under the ruse of safety and cry to the gov't to exact revenge on the soaring community for scaring you. The only request to the FAA that would improve towing safety would be asking them to go easy on Tost hook 337s same as they do for shoulder belt installations. But this isn't about safety, no one believes that BS Walt.

--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 8:05:18 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
So much well thought out logic wasted.

Has anyone considered that Walt might, just might, be Lennie reincarnated?

On 6/22/2017 6:13 AM, wrote:
You want to help save towpilots? Write articles for soaring magazine discussing towing safety(not just preaching an equipment solution.) Collect all STCs and 337s for Tost hooks for every plane that has ever towed a glider, build a webpage and put the info there. Add estimated costs of conversions and parts suppliers for the different airplanes. Once you have that info out in the world ask Tost if they'd do a group towhook discount if a bunch of US clubs purchased hooks at the same time. Then organize said group buy. If you collected the info so clubs knew that a Tost conversion cost X, info and parts came from Y, and it will take Z time to complete a lot of more them would make the switch. Or you could hide under the ruse of safety and cry to the gov't to exact revenge on the soaring community for scaring you. The only request to the FAA that would improve towing safety would be asking them to go easy on Tost hook 337s same as they do for shoulder belt installations. But this isn't about safety, no one believes that BS Walt.

--
Dan, 5J

This long string of responses contains many excellent and well thought out comments from many knowledgeable and experienced folks. They include many fine recommendations to consider on this issue, but I truly believe that writing this letter to the FAA may very well do a lot more harm than good.

It reminds me of this famous proverb....

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions..."

Renny