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New House Thermal



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 28th 17, 02:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default New House Thermal

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 7:33:56 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On 27/06/2017 19:11, Tango Whisky wrote:
Le mardi 27 juin 2017 07:02:56 UTC+2, a écrit :
No. Only a miniscule amount of the sunlight is turned into electricity.
At this level, (electricity out / total solar energy in) the efficiency
of PV panels is *buggerall*.

The solar farm will probably not only not produce thermals, it will
increase your energy costs. Shift to France where they have cheap
nuclear AND you can go gliding in the alps!


Well, physics doesn't seem to be part of your world. Today's photovoltaic solar panels run at an efficiency of about 20%. The definition of efficiency is electric power produced, divided by incident solar power. These 20% of the incident solar power are not available for heating.

And if you call nuclear power "cheap", economics does seem to bother you either...

As for the French Alps (where you see solar farms popping up everywhere) - that's where I fly most of the time.


Physics and economics are both a good part of my world. You're just
sniffy because I see it differently from you.

Efficiency from solar panels is actually about 15-16% at best and when
new. And of course it's hard to keep those panels facing the sun the
whole 24 hours and the output is also *buggerall* in a lot of places for
half the year as well. Overall? *Miniscule* is a good word.

Where your physics - and economics - fall apart is when seeing in the
dark and not freezing at night is factored in. Then the coal or oil
fired power stations - which would be both cheap and bloody efficient
during the day as well - really come into their own and make it clear
that the PV panels are a just a first world sop to a warped sense of
morality, defective understanding of atmospheric science and gullibility
in the face of mass media hype...

...and yes, I know they're popping up all over, but lots of people being
stupid doesn't lessen the degree of each one's stupidity.
--
GC


So does anyone else find it ironic that a pilot that flies hundreds of kg of sailplane around the sky for hundreds of km on solar power - is not a fan of solar power?

Chris
  #2  
Old June 28th 17, 12:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default New House Thermal

So does anyone else find it ironic that a pilot that flies hundreds of kg of sailplane around the sky for hundreds of km on solar power - is not a fan of solar power?

Chris


No. Let us know when they can build solar panels in a factory powered only by solar panels. Including refining the metal bits. Same for windmills. Chasing this stuff is a net negative for energy produced and the environment(and the economy.) Is it ironic that we land in cornfields but don't like ethanol in our gas?
  #3  
Old June 28th 17, 12:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Default New House Thermal

Le mercredi 28 juin 2017 13:36:44 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:

No. Let us know when they can build solar panels in a factory powered only by solar panels. Including refining the metal bits. Same for windmills.. Chasing this stuff is a net negative for energy produced and the environment(and the economy.) Is it ironic that we land in cornfields but don't like ethanol in our gas?


Today's solar panels have an energy payback time of less than 2 years.
If you haven't noticed - the 80s and 90s are gone...

Bert TW
  #4  
Old June 28th 17, 01:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 7:49:39 AM UTC-4, Tango Whisky wrote:
Le mercredi 28 juin 2017 13:36:44 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:

No. Let us know when they can build solar panels in a factory powered only by solar panels. Including refining the metal bits. Same for windmills. Chasing this stuff is a net negative for energy produced and the environment(and the economy.) Is it ironic that we land in cornfields but don't like ethanol in our gas?


Today's solar panels have an energy payback time of less than 2 years.
If you haven't noticed - the 80s and 90s are gone...

Bert TW

Payback including gov't subsidies. The 80's and 90's are gone...

  #5  
Old June 28th 17, 01:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Default New House Thermal

Le mercredi 28 juin 2017 14:26:00 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:
On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 7:49:39 AM UTC-4, Tango Whisky wrote:
Le mercredi 28 juin 2017 13:36:44 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:

No. Let us know when they can build solar panels in a factory powered only by solar panels. Including refining the metal bits. Same for windmills. Chasing this stuff is a net negative for energy produced and the environment(and the economy.) Is it ironic that we land in cornfields but don't like ethanol in our gas?


Today's solar panels have an energy payback time of less than 2 years.
If you haven't noticed - the 80s and 90s are gone...

Bert TW

Payback including gov't subsidies. The 80's and 90's are gone...


Energy payback means that they have generated more energy than the energy used for their production. It doesn't say anything about payback in terms of cost.

Again, I'm not promoting anything. Any kind of energy has its own drawbacks, and there is no such thing as a free lunch.
  #6  
Old June 28th 17, 02:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default New House Thermal

Take a look at our home airfield now:

Ball Airport
145 Ball Airport Rd, Louisburg, NC 27549
36.134316, -78.281947

(Above address comes from Google Maps)

Notice the tobacco fields to the east and south of the runway (North is up).. They are quite large, but soon, so I've heard, some of the tobacco will give way to solar panels.

Right now, I've never found "boomers" there. I have, however, found some thermals there, and some just strong enough to keep me from falling any farther. Maybe the ponds influence that? Even when the fields are fallow, before the tobacco has been planted, nice thermals are just not normally there.

When the PV panels go in, it will be interesting to know if there's a change for the better...


  #7  
Old June 28th 17, 12:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Default New House Thermal

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:01:27 -0700, greeneggsandjam wrote:

So does anyone else find it ironic that a pilot that flies hundreds of
kg of sailplane around the sky for hundreds of km on solar power - is
not a fan of solar power?

No, not at all.

All too many people have a total disconnect between the way the world is
and their beliefs about how it is.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
 




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