ASW27B prices falling

It is worse than you say in your neat note. Membership in the SSA is now below 10,000. Adds to the upscrewyness of the used glider market.

I will throw a different opinion out. Yes, it is supply and demand; but not that the 27b or V2a&b have been replaced by better aircraft.

This shift is because we have a small and shrinking population of racing pilots and an ever increasing number of classes. The std class was the first to go. We now have about four catagory one pilots left in std. class. 15m is being replaced by the 18m class. Most of the competitive pilots that were in std. class and 15m have now purchased 15/18m gliders. The balance shifted in about 2015 with more of the pilots moving to the 15/18m gliders rather than straight 15m. This shift was also exasperated by the creation of the 18/21 class of glider. These gliders now overlap in 18m and open.

In the US this is made worse by the distances required to drive to a contest. A multi class glider means you don't have to drive as far to compete.

The bottom line is those buying a new glider are going to buy a 15/18m or 18/21m glider. The demand for a straight 15m is going to fall. The FAI motto is "We never met a class of glider we won't create a new class for". At the same time it continues to price pilots out of the game and reduces number of people participating in the sport.

At 01:04 13 August 2017, Tim Taylor wrote:
I will throw a different opinion out. Yes, it is supply and demand;
but
no=
t that the 27b or V2a&b have been replaced by better aircraft.

This shift is because we have a small and shrinking population of
racing
pi=
lots and an ever increasing number of classes. The std class was
the
first=
to go. We now have about four catagory one pilots left in std.
class.
15=
m is being replaced by the 18m class. Most of the competitive
pilots that
=
were in std. class and 15m have now purchased 15/18m gliders.
The balance
s=
hifted in about 2015 with more of the pilots moving to the 15/18m
gliders
r=
ather than straight 15m. This shift was also exasperated by the
creation
of=
the 18/21 class of glider. These gliders now overlap in 18m and
open.


In the US this is made worse by the distances required to drive to
a
contes=
t. A multi class glider means you don't have to drive as far to
compete. =
=20

The bottom line is those buying a new glider are going to buy a
15/18m or
1=
8/21m glider. The demand for a straight 15m is going to fall. The
FAI
mott=
o is "We never met a class of glider we won't create a new class
for". At
=
the same time it continues to price pilots out of the game and
reduces
numb=
er of people participating in the sport.

And for those of us who can't afford to buy a new $150K competitive
glider, we are left with the handicapped classes where one can still
be competitive with an older and much less expensive glider.
Standard class is handicapped, but limited to only Standard class
gliders, whereas Sports and Club classes have broader ranges of
gliders allowed. Having 3 handicapped nationals per year allows the
contests to also be geographically spread out, which cuts down on
travel time and expenses too. So that is where you will find the
pilots (out of this ever shrinking pool) who want to compete but
can't afford the minimum $150K entry price in Open, 18m & 15m...
Of course this kind of "racing" won't sit well with the "purists" who
just want to go "head to head" with other pilots, but I suppose that
those folks could also go race 1-26's for a cheap one design class...
I am staying with my STD class glider because I can fly STD, Sports,
and Club classes with it, and be competitive in any of them...
RO

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 8:30:09 AM UTC-4, Michael Opitz wrote:
I am staying with my STD class glider because I can fly STD, Sports,
and Club classes with it, and be competitive in any of them...
RO

Same here, RO. I bought my state-of-the-art Standard Class glider 25 years ago. I've flown it in five classes (Std., Sports, 15M, Open, and FAI Combined/Handicapped 15M/Std.) and am still competitive in Std., Sports, and Club (thanks, Rules Committee!). I owned a 15M glider for many years and would love to fly flaps again but the cost makes no sense at this point in my life. UH helped me refinish my fuselage last winter and my wings are on the list for this winter. So my plan is to close out my gliding career in the same aircraft I've been flying since 1992.

Soaring has never been inexpensive. It's just even less so now. And, yeah, the proliferation of classes doesn't help, although ironically it arguably makes the Std. and 15M classes somewhat more affordable as used prices decline with shrinking popularity. So as long as they don't disappear entirely....

Chip Bearden

I remember -24 winglets testing many years ago at HHSC.
Yes, winglets (correct ones for conditions) makes a ASW a totally different glider.
Unless worlds, most performance gain is the nut behind the stick.
Old rule was, "40hrs in the raced glider before first contest day that season" so the basics of flying were automatic.

On Sunday, 13 August 2017 04:04:20 UTC+3, Tim Taylor wrote:
The balance shifted in about 2015 with more of the pilots moving to the 15/18m gliders rather than straight 15m.

I bet you can count straight 15m gliders manufactured after 2005 with your 10 fingers.

On Monday, 14 August 2017 02:28:47 UTC-6, krasw wrote:
On Sunday, 13 August 2017 04:04:20 UTC+3, Tim Taylor wrote:
The balance shifted in about 2015 with more of the pilots moving to the 15/18m gliders rather than straight 15m.

I bet you can count straight 15m gliders manufactured after 2005 with your 10 fingers.

This paragraph was posted on the Schempp-Hirth FB page

"Apart from it being a tradition, we celebrated the deliveries of both the 700th Duo Discus, the 250 Arcus (see below) and, in a few weeks, the upcoming deliveries of the 200th Discus-2c and the very last produced Ventus-2."

If they are not producing the V2 anymore and the "New Ventus" is currently only 18M what does that say about the or their view of the future?

https://www.facebook.com/schempphirth/

Ron Gleason

On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 9:50:51 AM UTC-4, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Monday, 14 August 2017 02:28:47 UTC-6, krasw wrote:
On Sunday, 13 August 2017 04:04:20 UTC+3, Tim Taylor wrote:
The balance shifted in about 2015 with more of the pilots moving to the 15/18m gliders rather than straight 15m.

I bet you can count straight 15m gliders manufactured after 2005 with your 10 fingers.

This paragraph was posted on the Schempp-Hirth FB page

"Apart from it being a tradition, we celebrated the deliveries of both the 700th Duo Discus, the 250 Arcus (see below) and, in a few weeks, the upcoming deliveries of the 200th Discus-2c and the very last produced Ventus-2."

If they are not producing the V2 anymore and the "New Ventus" is currently only 18M what does that say about the or their view of the future?

https://www.facebook.com/schempphirth/

Ron Gleason

There will surely be 15m tips for the V3.

There will surely be 15m tips for the V3.

15M tips are a very expensive option. 15 years ago for a V2C, the 15M tips were upwards of $7000 USD. Certainly more now.

So, you pay out the nose to get the outstanding performance of an 18M glider, then you pay even more to be able to fly it in a lower performance configuration. Makes no sense.

I wonder what % of 15/18M ships are sold with the 15M tip options.

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-7, wrote:
There will surely be 15m tips for the V3.

15M tips are a very expensive option. 15 years ago for a V2C, the 15M tips were upwards of $7000 USD. Certainly more now.

So, you pay out the nose to get the outstanding performance of an 18M glider, then you pay even more to be able to fly it in a lower performance configuration. Makes no sense.

I wonder what % of 15/18M ships are sold with the 15M tip options.

In 2015 15 meter tips for an ASG-29 were about 7,500 Euro. It makes plenty of sense if it fits your flying. If you want to compete in both 15 and 18 meter contests, resale value, all your friends have 15 meter gliders and you like to fly with them.... etc. Two gliders for almost the price of one. I do know several 29E owners who did not get the 15 meter tips and I even know one pilot with a 29 who did not order the 18 meter tips. What makes no sense to you might make plenty of sense to someone else.