Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam

Ed Rasimus ) writes:

-snip-

Sorry, Bill, but that simply isn't so. While "early outs" were
becoming available for a few specialties as early as '71,

Well, certainly much earlier than that. Heck -I- got an "early out"
in the summer of '67 which cut almost three full months of my
enlistment.

the policy
didn't apply to overseas tours which were strictly controlled.

I seem to recall a couple members of my unit who received "early
outs" which not only cut their enlistment terms but also were
granted in advance of their scheduled DROS cutting a month or
so off their scheduled RVN tours. But, it was a long time ago,
perhaps I misremember.

The only exception would be unit relocations, but not individuals.
When the 469th TFS shut down at the end of FY '72, there were no early
outs or early rotations back to CONUS. My second tour went from June
of '72 to July of '73 with no availability of curtailment.

Perhaps the Air Force policy on such things was different than
that of the US Army?

And, you really might want to look up the duration of Mr. Gore's
overseas assignment.

Everything I've seen sez it was early January, '71 through late
May, '71 with a scheduled discharge date of August 5, '71.

You have information to the contrary?

--


"Cave ab homine unius libri"

On 11 Jul 2004 04:31:51 GMT, (Bill Shatzer)
wrote:

Ed Rasimus ) writes:

-snip-

Sorry, Bill, but that simply isn't so. While "early outs" were
becoming available for a few specialties as early as '71,

Well, certainly much earlier than that. Heck -I- got an "early out"
in the summer of '67 which cut almost three full months of my
enlistment.

My first tour was '66 and it was mission count, not DEROS. Since 60%
of the folks starting the mission count tour didn't complete it, no
one was too worried about a fixed date DEROS. Support personnel,
however, were on a "controlled tour" which meant one year from the
date of departure from CONUS. Your three month early out would have to
be taken in the context of where you were stationed, your MOS/AFSC,
and your existing time in service.

the policy
didn't apply to overseas tours which were strictly controlled.

I seem to recall a couple members of my unit who received "early
outs" which not only cut their enlistment terms but also were
granted in advance of their scheduled DROS cutting a month or
so off their scheduled RVN tours. But, it was a long time ago,
perhaps I misremember.

Perhaps.

And, you really might want to look up the duration of Mr. Gore's
overseas assignment.

Everything I've seen sez it was early January, '71 through late
May, '71 with a scheduled discharge date of August 5, '71.

You have information to the contrary?

Here's a quote: "When they finally came, he would spend less than
five months in Vietnam, arriving on Jan. 8, 1971, to write newspaper
and magazine articles. He was discharged on May 24, 1971." (The
Washington Times National Weekly Edition Nov. 28 - Dec. 4, 1994)

I said Gore spent 151 days of a year tour. You replied that he only
got a two-month curtailment. The difference would be 151 days
(Jan-May???) versus 10 months x 30 days or 300 days. I think the
Washington Times dates, my statement, and your "Everything I've seen
sez" all indicate that your asssertion of a two month curtailment was
incorrect. So, we have information to the contrary.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed Rasimus ) writes:

-snip-

And, you really might want to look up the duration of Mr. Gore's
overseas assignment.

Everything I've seen sez it was early January, '71 through late
May, '71 with a scheduled discharge date of August 5, '71.

You have information to the contrary?

Here's a quote: "When they finally came, he would spend less than
five months in Vietnam, arriving on Jan. 8, 1971, to write newspaper
and magazine articles. He was discharged on May 24, 1971." (The
Washington Times National Weekly Edition Nov. 28 - Dec. 4, 1994)

I said Gore spent 151 days of a year tour. You replied that he only
got a two-month curtailment. The difference would be 151 days
(Jan-May???) versus 10 months x 30 days or 300 days. I think the
Washington Times dates, my statement, and your "Everything I've seen
sez" all indicate that your asssertion of a two month curtailment was
incorrect. So, we have information to the contrary.

I'm really trying to understand your point, Ed, and I'm apparently
missing it completely. Gore had, at most, a seven month tour.

Gove's enlistment was up on August 5, 1971. As I don't think they
were doing "stop-loses" in that era and certainly not for folks
with journalist MOSs, Gove was NOT going to be in VN after
early August in any event.

If he was discharged May 24, he served in VN two months and 12
days less than the maximum he might have served there.

As to why he didn't arrive in VN until January 8, that would seem
a differnet question but one which seems largely irrelevant.

There seems little dispute that he in fact -did- volunteer
for assignment to VN. It was certainly not unknown for the
Army bureaucracy to take its own sweet time between the receipt
of a re-assignment request and the time the orders were actually
cut.

Cheers,

--


"Cave ab homine unius libri"

On 11 Jul 2004 23:34:41 GMT, (Bill Shatzer)
wrote:

Ed Rasimus ) writes:

And, you really might want to look up the duration of Mr. Gore's
overseas assignment.

Everything I've seen sez it was early January, '71 through late
May, '71 with a scheduled discharge date of August 5, '71.

You have information to the contrary?

Here's a quote: "When they finally came, he would spend less than
five months in Vietnam, arriving on Jan. 8, 1971, to write newspaper
and magazine articles. He was discharged on May 24, 1971." (The
Washington Times National Weekly Edition Nov. 28 - Dec. 4, 1994)

I said Gore spent 151 days of a year tour. You replied that he only
got a two-month curtailment. The difference would be 151 days
(Jan-May???) versus 10 months x 30 days or 300 days. I think the
Washington Times dates, my statement, and your "Everything I've seen
sez" all indicate that your asssertion of a two month curtailment was
incorrect. So, we have information to the contrary.

I'm really trying to understand your point, Ed, and I'm apparently
missing it completely. Gore had, at most, a seven month tour.

Now, read slowly:

1. January
2. February
3. March
4. April
5. May.

That leads me to believe that 5 is not equal to 7 and 7 is very much
less than 12. And two from twelve is ten which is much more than
either five or seven.

Gove's enlistment was up on August 5, 1971. As I don't think they
were doing "stop-loses" in that era and certainly not for folks
with journalist MOSs, Gove was NOT going to be in VN after
early August in any event.

If he shipped to arrive in theater on January 8, then he left CONUS on
January 5. His DEROS would be January 5 of 1972. If he did not have a
full year of retainability, he would not have shipped for the
controlled tour.

Regardless, August is not May.

If he was discharged May 24, he served in VN two months and 12
days less than the maximum he might have served there.

I don't understand the sort of math required to get 151 days of a 365
day tour and have the difference be a shortfall of 72 days. I come up
with 215 days short.

Frankly, I agree with the contention that it doesn't matter. Gore was
clearly not a component of US combat capability. Or, maybe we just
weren't yet ready to "unleash" him...




Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

If he shipped to arrive in theater on January 8, then he left CONUS on
January 5. His DEROS would be January 5 of 1972. If he did not have a
full year of retainability, he would not have shipped for the
controlled tour.


Why not? Isn't the premise that he was given special treatment?