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Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down for maintenancefor a couple of months



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 1st 17, 08:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom BravoMike
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Posts: 266
Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down formaintenance for a couple of months

BTW, what an irony that the PW-5 is getting so many nice reviews NOW, after over 20 years. In the late 1990's the returning refrain on r.a.s. was: "Does the PW-5 still suck?" Some of us remember it...
  #2  
Old September 2nd 17, 02:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobW
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Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down formaintenance for a couple of months

BTW, what an irony that the PW-5 is getting so many nice reviews NOW, after
over 20 years. In the late 1990's the returning refrain on r.a.s. was:
"Does the PW-5 still suck?" Some of us remember it...


Heh (he chuckles, while contributing to thread drift)...temporary - if
years'-long-lasting - insanity? Short-sighted, too, when considered from the
group health aspect of the sport. Waiting with bated breath to see how much of
it's still around...

:-)
Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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  #3  
Old September 2nd 17, 05:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down formaintenance for a couple of months

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 07:01:38 -0600, BobW wrote:

BTW, what an irony that the PW-5 is getting so many nice reviews NOW,
after over 20 years. In the late 1990's the returning refrain on r.a.s.
was: "Does the PW-5 still suck?" Some of us remember it...


Heh (he chuckles, while contributing to thread drift)...temporary - if
years'-long-lasting - insanity? Short-sighted, too, when considered from
the group health aspect of the sport. Waiting with bated breath to see
how much of it's still around...

An entirely personal view, based on initial impressions:

I had my first flights in both a PW-5 and a Std Libelle on the same day
at the same club (not my home one).

Neither flight was really good for getting a rounded opinion of the
gliders because there was almost no lift, so both were sled rides after a
tow. I thought the PW-5 was nice handling, though I could relate to my
club's boss CFI's comment that it flew a bit like a paper bag. The
Libelle obviously had better performance but both seemed easy enough to
fly. I was in the market for my first glider at the time, so was flying
everything I could get into.

As a result of that day, the Libelle went onto my 'wants' list but the
PW-5 did not, though I was pleased to have flown it. Besides, the PW-5
isn't nearly as pretty as a Libelle.

On reflection and on looking at UK prices, the PW-5 was always a bit
expensive for what it was. It has very similar performance to a Ka-6e but
for a lot more cash, both then and now, and is not as rugged as an SZD
Junior, which has slightly performance. However, I think it is a good
enough glider to act as an alternative to a Junior or an ASK-23 in the
British/European club environment, where these, along with a G102, are
often used as a new pilot's initial single seater and will often be flown
by them up to silver C standard.

I think you'll find that the competition pilots were the PW-5's main
detractors and who can really blame them: stepping out of a contemporary
Standard Class toy to go racing in a much slower machine with a glide
ratio of 32 and no water would be a bit of a shock.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #4  
Old September 4th 17, 02:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down formaintenance for a couple of months

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 10:31:47 PM UTC+3, Tom BravoMike wrote:
BTW, what an irony that the PW-5 is getting so many nice reviews NOW, after over 20 years. In the late 1990's the returning refrain on r.a.s. was: "Does the PW-5 still suck?" Some of us remember it...


Let the record show that I've been one of the few people saying nice things about the PW5 in this forum, right from when my club got two of them in the mid 90s.

The PW5 has always been an excellent glass replacement for the much loved (of old) K6. Easy to fly, and plenty good enough to do a 300+ km flight in on a nice day.

People have generally run down the PW5 on one of two grounds:

1) it's allegedly ugly. Definitely it looks a little different to most modern gliders. That's one advantage of the AC4 Russia -- it looks "normal".

2) why buy a 32:1 new glider for the same price you can buy a 30 year old 40+:1 glider? A fair enough question in a declining sport/market. If the sport was growing (as the World Class project hoped to achieve) then the supply of 30 year old gliders would be insufficient.

For a number of years I was one of the few in our club who was happy to fly both the PW5 and the Janus, depending on what the aim of the flight was. Vastly different performance, and vastly different ease of landing in a paddock. Also vastly different ease of flying, with the PW5 being one of the easiest, while many who tried it and embarrassed themselves described the Janus handling as evil (especially the PIOs after takeoff, but control harmony and slow in general).
  #5  
Old September 4th 17, 07:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul T[_4_]
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Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down for maintenance for a couple of months

World Class was a far better idea than the stupidity that is the 13.5m
class
- now turning into another class for the 'rich boys'.

  #6  
Old September 6th 17, 10:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andreas Maurer
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Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down for maintenance for a couple of months

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 18:50:03 +0000, Paul T
wrote:

World Class was a far better idea than the stupidity that is the 13.5m
class


.... and it failed completely, as predicted by many.
Obviously one of the worst ideas ever in gliding history.

- now turning into another class for the 'rich boys'.

.... but with many nice features (affordable self-launch, godd
performance). People in my club are talking about buying 13.5m class
gliders.


  #7  
Old September 7th 17, 03:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul T[_4_]
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Posts: 259
Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down for maintenance for a couple of months

At 21:09 06 September 2017, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 18:50:03 +0000, Paul T
wrote:

World Class was a far better idea than the stupidity that is the 13.5m
class


.... and it failed completely, as predicted by many.
Obviously one of the worst ideas ever in gliding history.

- now turning into another class for the 'rich boys'.

.... but with many nice features (affordable self-launch, godd
performance). People in my club are talking about buying 13.5m class
gliders.




REALLY???? and what are the numbers in 13.5m class? - lower than any
World Class event? The idea to have a relatively affordable ship that could

be used as a first solo ship in clubs, then to compete with on a level
playing
field at an international level was a far better idea than another racing
class
for the rich boys. Trouble is this sport at national and intentional level
is
dominated by spoilt rich boys who turn up their noses at anything less than

40:1.

  #8  
Old September 7th 17, 05:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Posts: 402
Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down formaintenance for a couple of months

If a brilliant idea doesn't work out, maybe it wasn't thÃ*t brilliant?
  #9  
Old September 7th 17, 10:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Posts: 961
Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down formaintenance for a couple of months

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 7:39:28 AM UTC+3, Tango Whisky wrote:
If a brilliant idea doesn't work out, maybe it wasn't thÃ*t brilliant?


Or maybe the market timing was wrong, or maybe the execution wasn't good enough, or maybe the choice of winner was bad, or maybe the technology wasn't quite there in 1989-1993 to meet all the goals without too much compromise..
  #10  
Old September 9th 17, 09:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andreas Maurer
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Posts: 345
Default Where can I train in a PW-6? Seminole Lake's is down for maintenance for a couple of months

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 02:38:37 +0000, Paul T
wrote:


REALLY???? and what are the numbers in 13.5m class? - lower than any
World Class event? The idea to have a relatively affordable ship that could

be used as a first solo ship in clubs, then to compete with on a level
playing
field at an international level was a far better idea than another racing
class
for the rich boys.


The point ios still valid: For the price of a PW-5 you get an older
Standard Class glider (perfectly suited for Club Class cometitions
today) with vastly superior performance. Recent history has proven
that glider pilots are not willing to fly something with the
performance of 60 years ago.


Trouble is this sport at national and intentional level
is
dominated by spoilt rich boys who turn up their noses at anything less than

40:1.



I don't know about your club, but the 15-year-old student pilots in my
club fly DG-300 and ASW-24. The 38:1 Mistral-C is being regarded as
too-badd-performance, not to mention the first solo glider, the Ka-8.

If they want to compete, they fly Club Class or Standard Class.

In case you didn't get it: There are more and more people who are
willing to buy a self-launcher - and these light 13.5m toys perfectly
fit into this market niche.


 




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