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#1
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BTW, what an irony that the PW-5 is getting so many nice reviews NOW, after over 20 years. In the late 1990's the returning refrain on r.a.s. was: "Does the PW-5 still suck?" Some of us remember it...
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#2
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BTW, what an irony that the PW-5 is getting so many nice reviews NOW, after
over 20 years. In the late 1990's the returning refrain on r.a.s. was: "Does the PW-5 still suck?" Some of us remember it... Heh (he chuckles, while contributing to thread drift)...temporary - if years'-long-lasting - insanity? Short-sighted, too, when considered from the group health aspect of the sport. Waiting with bated breath to see how much of it's still around... :-) Bob W. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
#3
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On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 07:01:38 -0600, BobW wrote:
BTW, what an irony that the PW-5 is getting so many nice reviews NOW, after over 20 years. In the late 1990's the returning refrain on r.a.s. was: "Does the PW-5 still suck?" Some of us remember it... Heh (he chuckles, while contributing to thread drift)...temporary - if years'-long-lasting - insanity? Short-sighted, too, when considered from the group health aspect of the sport. Waiting with bated breath to see how much of it's still around... An entirely personal view, based on initial impressions: I had my first flights in both a PW-5 and a Std Libelle on the same day at the same club (not my home one). Neither flight was really good for getting a rounded opinion of the gliders because there was almost no lift, so both were sled rides after a tow. I thought the PW-5 was nice handling, though I could relate to my club's boss CFI's comment that it flew a bit like a paper bag. The Libelle obviously had better performance but both seemed easy enough to fly. I was in the market for my first glider at the time, so was flying everything I could get into. As a result of that day, the Libelle went onto my 'wants' list but the PW-5 did not, though I was pleased to have flown it. Besides, the PW-5 isn't nearly as pretty as a Libelle. On reflection and on looking at UK prices, the PW-5 was always a bit expensive for what it was. It has very similar performance to a Ka-6e but for a lot more cash, both then and now, and is not as rugged as an SZD Junior, which has slightly performance. However, I think it is a good enough glider to act as an alternative to a Junior or an ASK-23 in the British/European club environment, where these, along with a G102, are often used as a new pilot's initial single seater and will often be flown by them up to silver C standard. I think you'll find that the competition pilots were the PW-5's main detractors and who can really blame them: stepping out of a contemporary Standard Class toy to go racing in a much slower machine with a glide ratio of 32 and no water would be a bit of a shock. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#4
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On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 10:31:47 PM UTC+3, Tom BravoMike wrote:
BTW, what an irony that the PW-5 is getting so many nice reviews NOW, after over 20 years. In the late 1990's the returning refrain on r.a.s. was: "Does the PW-5 still suck?" Some of us remember it... Let the record show that I've been one of the few people saying nice things about the PW5 in this forum, right from when my club got two of them in the mid 90s. The PW5 has always been an excellent glass replacement for the much loved (of old) K6. Easy to fly, and plenty good enough to do a 300+ km flight in on a nice day. People have generally run down the PW5 on one of two grounds: 1) it's allegedly ugly. Definitely it looks a little different to most modern gliders. That's one advantage of the AC4 Russia -- it looks "normal". 2) why buy a 32:1 new glider for the same price you can buy a 30 year old 40+:1 glider? A fair enough question in a declining sport/market. If the sport was growing (as the World Class project hoped to achieve) then the supply of 30 year old gliders would be insufficient. For a number of years I was one of the few in our club who was happy to fly both the PW5 and the Janus, depending on what the aim of the flight was. Vastly different performance, and vastly different ease of landing in a paddock. Also vastly different ease of flying, with the PW5 being one of the easiest, while many who tried it and embarrassed themselves described the Janus handling as evil (especially the PIOs after takeoff, but control harmony and slow in general). |
#5
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World Class was a far better idea than the stupidity that is the 13.5m
class - now turning into another class for the 'rich boys'. |
#6
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On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 18:50:03 +0000, Paul T
wrote: World Class was a far better idea than the stupidity that is the 13.5m class .... and it failed completely, as predicted by many. Obviously one of the worst ideas ever in gliding history. - now turning into another class for the 'rich boys'. .... but with many nice features (affordable self-launch, godd performance). People in my club are talking about buying 13.5m class gliders. |
#7
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At 21:09 06 September 2017, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 18:50:03 +0000, Paul T wrote: World Class was a far better idea than the stupidity that is the 13.5m class .... and it failed completely, as predicted by many. Obviously one of the worst ideas ever in gliding history. - now turning into another class for the 'rich boys'. .... but with many nice features (affordable self-launch, godd performance). People in my club are talking about buying 13.5m class gliders. REALLY???? and what are the numbers in 13.5m class? - lower than any World Class event? The idea to have a relatively affordable ship that could be used as a first solo ship in clubs, then to compete with on a level playing field at an international level was a far better idea than another racing class for the rich boys. Trouble is this sport at national and intentional level is dominated by spoilt rich boys who turn up their noses at anything less than 40:1. |
#8
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If a brilliant idea doesn't work out, maybe it wasn't thÃ*t brilliant?
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#9
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On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 7:39:28 AM UTC+3, Tango Whisky wrote:
If a brilliant idea doesn't work out, maybe it wasn't thÃ*t brilliant? Or maybe the market timing was wrong, or maybe the execution wasn't good enough, or maybe the choice of winner was bad, or maybe the technology wasn't quite there in 1989-1993 to meet all the goals without too much compromise.. |
#10
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On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 02:38:37 +0000, Paul T
wrote: REALLY???? and what are the numbers in 13.5m class? - lower than any World Class event? The idea to have a relatively affordable ship that could be used as a first solo ship in clubs, then to compete with on a level playing field at an international level was a far better idea than another racing class for the rich boys. The point ios still valid: For the price of a PW-5 you get an older Standard Class glider (perfectly suited for Club Class cometitions today) with vastly superior performance. Recent history has proven that glider pilots are not willing to fly something with the performance of 60 years ago. Trouble is this sport at national and intentional level is dominated by spoilt rich boys who turn up their noses at anything less than 40:1. I don't know about your club, but the 15-year-old student pilots in my club fly DG-300 and ASW-24. The 38:1 Mistral-C is being regarded as too-badd-performance, not to mention the first solo glider, the Ka-8. If they want to compete, they fly Club Class or Standard Class. In case you didn't get it: There are more and more people who are willing to buy a self-launcher - and these light 13.5m toys perfectly fit into this market niche. |
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