sunlight readable iphone

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:47:54 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 1:06:53 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
[snip]
Even though years old now, Winpilot is still way ahead of SYM.

Wow you do comedy as well. I'll respond in person when we are both holding beers. :-)

There really isn't anything wrong with SYM that a complete and total re-write of the UI wouldn't fix. :-) But if I have to deal with it as it is, you buy the beer.

perjantai 22. syyskuuta 2017 7.42.43 UTC+3 jfitch kirjoitti:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:47:54 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 1:06:53 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
[snip]
Even though years old now, Winpilot is still way ahead of SYM.

Wow you do comedy as well. I'll respond in person when we are both holding beers. :-)

There really isn't anything wrong with SYM that a complete and total re-write of the UI wouldn't fix. :-) But if I have to deal with it as it is, you buy the beer.

What is the problem with SYM UI? It is far more easier to use, and configurable, than XCSoar. Not to mention glide computers which have no touchscreens at all. The UI is designed to be used in cockpit enviroment, with gloves on. In that enviroment some fancy Android or IPhone gestures would make me throw it out of the window in 15 seconds. You cannot even grab a modern phone without accidentally starting some app or pressing buttons on the edge

"While the locations of the nav boxes are the same between pages, you can
configure the nav boxes to display different data on each page. You can
also configure XCSoar to automatically switch between climb, cruise, and
final glide pages. "

Yes. I prefer to have the same info in the same place on each page. So I want a normal map with less info, and another with additional info. Possible in SYM, not in XCS. I don't want it changing the position of info automatically and have that switched off in XCS. My brain must work differently from the XCS devs. But from teaching other club members how to use these things which I do often I know I am much better at coping with them than most.

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 11:59:07 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
perjantai 22. syyskuuta 2017 7.42.43 UTC+3 jfitch kirjoitti:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:47:54 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 1:06:53 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
[snip]
Even though years old now, Winpilot is still way ahead of SYM.

Wow you do comedy as well. I'll respond in person when we are both holding beers. :-)

There really isn't anything wrong with SYM that a complete and total re-write of the UI wouldn't fix. :-) But if I have to deal with it as it is, you buy the beer.

What is the problem with SYM UI? It is far more easier to use, and configurable, than XCSoar. Not to mention glide computers which have no touchscreens at all. The UI is designed to be used in cockpit enviroment, with gloves on. In that enviroment some fancy Android or IPhone gestures would make me throw it out of the window in 15 seconds. You cannot even grab a modern phone without accidentally starting some app or pressing buttons on the edge

If you liked the Windows 3.1 UI, you'll probably love SYM. UI is in some ways like art, judged by the beholder. But most of the world has moved on from tiny little buttons illogically arranged, very modal behavior, etc., typical of PDA apps from 20 years past. SYM is supplied with a 113 page manual. That pretty much says it all right there. I'm not saying XCSoar is a lot better, it grows from the same roots. The XCSoar manual is 180 pages. But with XCSoar at least I didn't pay for the pain (yearly, for SYM, now). In contrast anyone familiar with modern smartphone apps could pick up iGlide on an iPhone and within 3 or 4 minutes access 90% of its functionality without a manual at all. There are something like a billion smartphones sold each year, Apple alone sold 210 million last year. Most people have learned to operate them.

On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 9:03:58 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 11:59:07 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
perjantai 22. syyskuuta 2017 7.42.43 UTC+3 jfitch kirjoitti:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:47:54 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 1:06:53 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
[snip]
Even though years old now, Winpilot is still way ahead of SYM.

Wow you do comedy as well. I'll respond in person when we are both holding beers. :-)

There really isn't anything wrong with SYM that a complete and total re-write of the UI wouldn't fix. :-) But if I have to deal with it as it is, you buy the beer.

What is the problem with SYM UI? It is far more easier to use, and configurable, than XCSoar. Not to mention glide computers which have no touchscreens at all. The UI is designed to be used in cockpit enviroment, with gloves on. In that enviroment some fancy Android or IPhone gestures would make me throw it out of the window in 15 seconds. You cannot even grab a modern phone without accidentally starting some app or pressing buttons on the edge

If you liked the Windows 3.1 UI, you'll probably love SYM. UI is in some ways like art, judged by the beholder. But most of the world has moved on from tiny little buttons illogically arranged, very modal behavior, etc., typical of PDA apps from 20 years past. SYM is supplied with a 113 page manual. That pretty much says it all right there. I'm not saying XCSoar is a lot better, it grows from the same roots. The XCSoar manual is 180 pages. But with XCSoar at least I didn't pay for the pain (yearly, for SYM, now). In contrast anyone familiar with modern smartphone apps could pick up iGlide on an iPhone and within 3 or 4 minutes access 90% of its functionality without a manual at all. There are something like a billion smartphones sold each year, Apple alone sold 210 million last year. Most people have learned to operate them.

Oh pluezze. Yes OK some of the UI digs are deserved but the documentation one is not. Much of this software needs better and more documentation not less.

Your pretty iPhone app intended for complex use, like a flight computer, should come with extensive good documentation. Snd yes while good does not mean long, there is so much to cover in these apps that I don't see any how you don't end up with hundreds of pages of documentation.

Foreflight as an example, runs on iOS, has a pretty UI and has a really well written 300+ pages of documentation.

On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:11:22 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 9:03:58 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 11:59:07 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
perjantai 22. syyskuuta 2017 7.42.43 UTC+3 jfitch kirjoitti:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:47:54 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 1:06:53 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
[snip]
Even though years old now, Winpilot is still way ahead of SYM.

Wow you do comedy as well. I'll respond in person when we are both holding beers. :-)

There really isn't anything wrong with SYM that a complete and total re-write of the UI wouldn't fix. :-) But if I have to deal with it as it is, you buy the beer.

What is the problem with SYM UI? It is far more easier to use, and configurable, than XCSoar. Not to mention glide computers which have no touchscreens at all. The UI is designed to be used in cockpit enviroment, with gloves on. In that enviroment some fancy Android or IPhone gestures would make me throw it out of the window in 15 seconds. You cannot even grab a modern phone without accidentally starting some app or pressing buttons on the edge

If you liked the Windows 3.1 UI, you'll probably love SYM. UI is in some ways like art, judged by the beholder. But most of the world has moved on from tiny little buttons illogically arranged, very modal behavior, etc., typical of PDA apps from 20 years past. SYM is supplied with a 113 page manual. That pretty much says it all right there. I'm not saying XCSoar is a lot better, it grows from the same roots. The XCSoar manual is 180 pages. But with XCSoar at least I didn't pay for the pain (yearly, for SYM, now). In contrast anyone familiar with modern smartphone apps could pick up iGlide on an iPhone and within 3 or 4 minutes access 90% of its functionality without a manual at all. There are something like a billion smartphones sold each year, Apple alone sold 210 million last year. Most people have learned to operate them.

Oh pluezze. Yes OK some of the UI digs are deserved but the documentation one is not. Much of this software needs better and more documentation not less.

Your pretty iPhone app intended for complex use, like a flight computer, should come with extensive good documentation. Snd yes while good does not mean long, there is so much to cover in these apps that I don't see any how you don't end up with hundreds of pages of documentation.

Foreflight as an example, runs on iOS, has a pretty UI and has a really well written 300+ pages of documentation.

"Better documentation not less" is the problem. More is not necessarily better. Most phone apps (even very complex ones) are considered self documenting. SYM and XCSoar are actually not all that complex, but made to be, due to the interface. The iGlide manual is 17 pages including the title page.

Is there anything online which shows the strengths of iGlide? Perhaps YT video showing task entry for different types of tasks with different rules?

On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 4:26:56 AM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
Is there anything online which shows the strengths of iGlide? Perhaps YT video showing task entry for different types of tasks with different rules?

Unfortunately no YT videos of much use. I've threatened to make some, perhaps I will this winter. The real solution is for them to publish a free demo version, like everyone else does.

On Friday, 22 September 2017 19:03:58 UTC+3, jfitch wrote:
If you liked the Windows 3.1 UI, you'll probably love SYM. UI is in some ways like art, judged by the beholder. But most of the world has moved on from tiny little buttons illogically arranged, very modal behavior, etc., typical of PDA apps from 20 years past. SYM is supplied with a 113 page manual. That pretty much says it all right there. I'm not saying XCSoar is a lot better, it grows from the same roots. The XCSoar manual is 180 pages. But with XCSoar at least I didn't pay for the pain (yearly, for SYM, now). In contrast anyone familiar with modern smartphone apps could pick up iGlide on an iPhone and within 3 or 4 minutes access 90% of its functionality without a manual at all. There are something like a billion smartphones sold each year, Apple alone sold 210 million last year. Most people have learned to operate them.

I do not recognize SYM from this description. Tiny buttons, too long manual, modal wtf, annual license? We are talking about highly complex problems (AAT optimization etc.) that need complex software. You read manual, learn program and that's it, I do not have to read manual before every flight. Talking about iGlide is useless, you cannot buy a device that runs it and is adequately readable in cockpit. There is no iGlide option for glider use.

On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 1:07:29 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
Talking about iGlide is useless, you cannot buy a device that runs it and is adequately readable in cockpit. There is no iGlide option for glider use.

Krasw: What about the Air-Avionics Display M and Display L? Their displays are extremely good.
Purpose-built displays beat the improvised hanging-off-the-panel things any day.
Jim