ATC Privatization, HR 2997

Just curious...Â* If any country sent me a bill for my US registered
aircraft and I'd not flown it in that country, I'd tell them politely
that it wasn't me and then ignore all further communications from them.

As to tolls, last I heard the air was free and, since I'm not required
to have a transponder, I could simply remove it.Â* Problem solved (for now).


On 10/7/2017 6:43 AM, wrote:
I keeping thinking ADS-B's larger impact will be that it will become the toll beacon of the sky. That will impact soaring and all air sports as I'm sure any exemptions will canceled in a privatized ATC sky. Transponders squawking 1202 will just not be 'safe' enough.
Frank, glad to see someone else believes we will eventually all be paying a toll whether we use ATC or not. The problem with privatization is that it is based on user fees and giving priority to the airlines. That is sort of like giving bus lines control and priority over cars, which has already happened in some places. The initial response by GA will be to avoid ATC to avoid fees. Pilots that might have flown on an IFR flight plan (even in VMC) or requested flight following, will then fly without ATC. The chance of a mid-air for GA will most certainly increase. It does not appear the airlines have realized the problem it will create for themselves by having so many more GA pilots outside the ATC system. Currently, ATC will vector a GA pilot they are controlling to minimize the impact on airlines in the same vicinity. If ATC is not talking to the GA aircraft, then the airlines will have to do ALL of the vectoring to avoid GA. That will eventually lead to major inefficiencies for the airlines and they will then need to lobby for all aircraft to be controlled over larger areas or lose even more money. Eventually, all of the airspace could become "controlled" and everyone pays a user fee. We do not even need ADSB for that to happen, since the mode-S transponders we use now give ATC and the FAA all the information they need to send us a bill whether we use ATC or not. I've received dozens of invoices from Canada even though I have not flown there in more than 15 years. Either their system has issues, someone is flying with my mode-s code, the N number was heard incorrectly, or they simply want to send out bills hoping the payee will not notice. I even received an invoice for my balloon of all things. The sad part is that I have to be the one to prove my aircraft was not there, not the other way around. While I do not expect this all to happen in my lifetime, the next generation or two will not have the opportunities we all had.

--
Dan, 5J

Just curious... If any country sent me a bill for my US registered
aircraft and I'd not flown it in that country, I'd tell them politely
that it wasn't me and then ignore all further communications from them.

I agree and tried that. I got followup invoices with late fees and penalties.
The US has some sort of obligation agreement to help them collect fees, so the US gets involved too.
They eventually assigned a debt collector to harass me.
I finally had to get an attorney involved.
I spent far more money fighting it, than if I had just paid the tolls, but then it was the "principle of the thing" and I am stubborn.

When you see how much of the money goes to the "administration" cost of these systems, it is really sad.

Wow!

My only similar incident was when I received a bill for *fuel* for my
ASW-19b from a North Carolina FBO and I had only flown it in Texas at
that time.Â* It wasn't me and I called them and told them so.Â* That was
the last I heard of it.

On 10/7/2017 9:23 AM, wrote:
Just curious... If any country sent me a bill for my US registered
aircraft and I'd not flown it in that country, I'd tell them politely
that it wasn't me and then ignore all further communications from them.

I agree and tried that. I got followup invoices with late fees and penalties.
The US has some sort of obligation agreement to help them collect fees, so the US gets involved too.
They eventually assigned a debt collector to harass me.
I finally had to get an attorney involved.
I spent far more money fighting it, than if I had just paid the tolls, but then it was the "principle of the thing" and I am stubborn.

When you see how much of the money goes to the "administration" cost of these systems, it is really sad.

--
Dan, 5J

My only similar incident was when I received a bill for *fuel* for my
ASW-19b from a North Carolina FBO and I had only flown it in Texas at
that time.Â*

Funny, does your ASW-19b burn 100LL or JetA?
Never had an issue with fuel bills, although I have received incorrect landing fee invoices from airports.

That was back in the '80s.Â* My current glider burns 91 octane
ethanol-free auto fuel.

On 10/7/2017 11:25 AM, wrote:
My only similar incident was when I received a bill for *fuel* for my
ASW-19b from a North Carolina FBO and I had only flown it in Texas at
that time.
Funny, does your ASW-19b burn 100LL or JetA?
Never had an issue with fuel bills, although I have received incorrect landing fee invoices from airports.

--
Dan, 5J

By the number of views and on-topic posts, it appears that few people care.
The bill was supposed to be voted on today but there is no update.
Jim

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...783AA4FFD366A3

Oh Jim, I care.

I sure wish the SSA had been more vocal opposing this

Daryl

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 9:33:03 PM UTC-5, JS wrote:
By the number of views and on-topic posts, it appears that few people care.
The bill was supposed to be voted on today but there is no update.
Jim

I care and have contacted my representative and senators.
In Florida Senator Nelson is opposed to privatization.
I have not been able to confirm Rubio's position or that of my representative Gaetz.

I believe: "IF IT IS NOT BROKE, DO NOT FIX IT"

My understanding is that the vote in the house has been delayed with no new date set.

We have some smart people in soaring and it would be good if someone would take a look at the bill. It is 461 pages, so there is a lot in there.
I have a call into AOPA and they were unable to answer my questions, the young lady actually said she had not read it. She was from the UK and said she knew their system was a disaster. Someone is suppose to call me back.

In my quick review, it appears that the bill says no fees may be charged to Part 91 operators??? Of course, I suppose they could start that way and then change it once the billing systems are in place.

However, a couple of other items potentially scary items jumped out at me.
--AIRSPACE
There are almost twice as many references to "airspace" is there are to "fees". It appears that the Corporation can make recommendations to the Secretary for airspace changes and they can be approved without any public review. If that is correct, that is scary.

--EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT CLASSIFICATIONS
There is a reference to the corporation evaluating ... "the appropriateness of requiring an authorization for each experimental aircraft rather than using a broader all makes and models approach". Not sure what that could mean to us with aircraft classified as experimental.

--REQUIRED SAFETY EQUIPMENT AND SYSTEMS
Section 315 appears to allow the corporation the ability to require certain "safety enhancing equipment and systems for small general aviation airplanes".

++10 YEAR REGISTRATIONS
One positive thing I noticed, is a change to the re-registration requirements for aircraft from the current 3 years to 10 years.

I support AOPA, have contacted my NJ reps......
Yes, wish I saw more from SSA.....maybe I missed it......

My only similar incident was when I received a bill for *fuel* for my ASW-19b
from a North Carolina FBO and I had only flown it in Texas at that time.Â* It
wasn't me and I called them and told them so.Â* That was the last I heard of it.

On 10/7/2017 9:23 AM, wrote:
Just curious...Â* If any country sent me a bill for my US registered
aircraft and I'd not flown it in that country, I'd tell them politely
that it wasn't me and then ignore all further communications from them.

I agree and tried that.Â* I got followup invoices with late fees and penalties.
The US has some sort of obligation agreement to help them collect fees, so
the US gets involved too.
They eventually assigned a debt collector to harass me.
I finally had to get an attorney involved.
I spent far more money fighting it, than if I had just paid the tolls, but
then it was the "principle of the thing" and I am stubborn.

When you see how much of the money goes to the "administration" cost of
these systems, it is really sad.


My vote is for "appalling" rather than "sad," but that's a quibble, not an
argument!

I/my sailplane also once received a fuel bill from an FBO in NM. Fully
prepared to ignore any "further/perpetuating/reinforcing errors" until the end
of my natural life, I simply wrote them back it had to be an error, and why,
and never heard another word. OTOH, my wife continues to occasionally receive
dunning notices (from a collection agency) for a once unpaid (as in, late)
utility bill from long before we ever met. These receive all the attention
they deserve...

Bob W.

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