Train Wreck

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 7:37:32 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Oh and great thread title mini-me.

The US Team Selection process is a total TRAIN WRECK.

#morelies

SSA dues paying members: Sean Fidler disparages the SSA with a link to the organization. https://seanfidler.com/ I think there are many, many SSA members that might be very interested in your personal website... And, as an SSA member my first questions to the SSA leadership now a How much of the SSA dues funds go to the US soaring team? What are the code of conduct requirements of a US International contest participant? Unfortunately and regrettably we may need to flush that out. Of course criticism itself is not a disqualifying factor, but I'm sure there is some behavioral standard to adhere to. A US team member represents the SSA and the USA.
If you want to bring the SSA into it Sean, then the members get to have a say and are going to ask questions. It's all your choice, you can have a valid grievance and make your point in a respectful way, or not. You routinely choose not to. Blowback is a fair and reasonable consequence. Start calculating for it?
Cheers.
I'd provide my name on this one but you are a suspected (known?) online bully so I'll take the safe route. Probably not hard to figure it out anyway but I'll at least keep it off a public forum.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 10:02:55 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 7:37:32 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Oh and great thread title mini-me.

The US Team Selection process is a total TRAIN WRECK.

#morelies

SSA dues paying members: Sean Fidler disparages the SSA with a link to the organization. https://seanfidler.com/ I think there are many, many SSA members that might be very interested in your personal website... And, as an SSA member my first questions to the SSA leadership now a How much of the SSA dues funds go to the US soaring team? What are the code of conduct requirements of a US International contest participant? Unfortunately and regrettably we may need to flush that out. Of course criticism itself is not a disqualifying factor, but I'm sure there is some behavioral standard to adhere to. A US team member represents the SSA and the USA.
If you want to bring the SSA into it Sean, then the members get to have a say and are going to ask questions. It's all your choice, you can have a valid grievance and make your point in a respectful way, or not. You routinely choose not to. Blowback is a fair and reasonable consequence. Start calculating for it?
Cheers.
I'd provide my name on this one but you are a suspected (known?) online bully so I'll take the safe route. Probably not hard to figure it out anyway but I'll at least keep it off a public forum.

I'll answer your question re SSA funds. No SSA member funds are used for the US Team. SSA resources assist with publicity to help fund raising. Funding for the US Team is in a separate bucket filled by dedicated contributions, and overseen by SSA leadership.
UH

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 8:11:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 10:02:55 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 7:37:32 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Oh and great thread title mini-me.

The US Team Selection process is a total TRAIN WRECK.

#morelies

SSA dues paying members: Sean Fidler disparages the SSA with a link to the organization. https://seanfidler.com/ I think there are many, many SSA members that might be very interested in your personal website... And, as an SSA member my first questions to the SSA leadership now a How much of the SSA dues funds go to the US soaring team? What are the code of conduct requirements of a US International contest participant? Unfortunately and regrettably we may need to flush that out. Of course criticism itself is not a disqualifying factor, but I'm sure there is some behavioral standard to adhere to. A US team member represents the SSA and the USA.
If you want to bring the SSA into it Sean, then the members get to have a say and are going to ask questions. It's all your choice, you can have a valid grievance and make your point in a respectful way, or not. You routinely choose not to. Blowback is a fair and reasonable consequence. Start calculating for it?
Cheers.
I'd provide my name on this one but you are a suspected (known?) online bully so I'll take the safe route. Probably not hard to figure it out anyway but I'll at least keep it off a public forum.

I'll answer your question re SSA funds. No SSA member funds are used for the US Team. SSA resources assist with publicity to help fund raising. Funding for the US Team is in a separate bucket filled by dedicated contributions, and overseen by SSA leadership.
UH

Good to know, thanks.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 10:11:11 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 10:02:55 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 7:37:32 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Oh and great thread title mini-me.

The US Team Selection process is a total TRAIN WRECK.

#morelies

SSA dues paying members: Sean Fidler disparages the SSA with a link to the organization. https://seanfidler.com/ I think there are many, many SSA members that might be very interested in your personal website... And, as an SSA member my first questions to the SSA leadership now a How much of the SSA dues funds go to the US soaring team? What are the code of conduct requirements of a US International contest participant? Unfortunately and regrettably we may need to flush that out. Of course criticism itself is not a disqualifying factor, but I'm sure there is some behavioral standard to adhere to. A US team member represents the SSA and the USA.
If you want to bring the SSA into it Sean, then the members get to have a say and are going to ask questions. It's all your choice, you can have a valid grievance and make your point in a respectful way, or not. You routinely choose not to. Blowback is a fair and reasonable consequence. Start calculating for it?
Cheers.
I'd provide my name on this one but you are a suspected (known?) online bully so I'll take the safe route. Probably not hard to figure it out anyway but I'll at least keep it off a public forum.

I'll answer your question re SSA funds. No SSA member funds are used for the US Team. SSA resources assist with publicity to help fund raising. Funding for the US Team is in a separate bucket filled by dedicated contributions, and overseen by SSA leadership.
UH

However, note that a portion of the SSA contest sanction fee paid involuntarily by every contest entrant goes to the USTeam.

Archer,

Worth repeating the relevant sections of the US Team Code of Conduct he

13.1.3 Courtesy. Courteous accessibility to visiting SSA members, sponsors, dignitaries and the Press.
13.1.4 Respect. Respect for the host organization, the facility, the rules of the airfield and the organization.
13.1.5 Treatment. Fair, considerate, courteous treatment of Team Management, Team Volunteers, and members of the public.
13.2.1 Highest Level. To maintain at all times a high standard of sportsmanship and fair play
13.2.6 Respect. Maintain an attitude of respect and politeness towards competitors both in the air and on the ground.
13.3 To Specifically Refrain From. To refrain from any behavior which might reflect unfavorably on the United States of America, the sport, the Team, its management, or which might bring any other pilot, official or the Team into disrepute

Rereading the document it is pretty clear to me that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition.

I think most rational observers would agree many lines were crossed long (honestly several years) ago but no one should have any remaining doubts. Several years back the US Team came very close to pulling a member (711) because of perceived personality issues and a junior team member (OO) was removed during a competition where he had won several days because the TC thought he was drinking too late at night. Yet total silence regarding a psychopathic bully? The SSA / Team Committee needs to make a statement very soon as both of these individuals did far, far less. A permanent ban from future competition seems appropriate and justified.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-7, Kevin Christner wrote:
Archer,

Worth repeating the relevant sections of the US Team Code of Conduct he

13.1.3 Courtesy. Courteous accessibility to visiting SSA members, sponsors, dignitaries and the Press.
13.1.4 Respect. Respect for the host organization, the facility, the rules of the airfield and the organization.
13.1.5 Treatment. Fair, considerate, courteous treatment of Team Management, Team Volunteers, and members of the public.
13.2.1 Highest Level. To maintain at all times a high standard of sportsmanship and fair play
13.2.6 Respect. Maintain an attitude of respect and politeness towards competitors both in the air and on the ground.
13.3 To Specifically Refrain From. To refrain from any behavior which might reflect unfavorably on the United States of America, the sport, the Team, its management, or which might bring any other pilot, official or the Team into disrepute

Rereading the document it is pretty clear to me that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition.

I think most rational observers would agree many lines were crossed long (honestly several years) ago but no one should have any remaining doubts. Several years back the US Team came very close to pulling a member (711) because of perceived personality issues and a junior team member (OO) was removed during a competition where he had won several days because the TC thought he was drinking too late at night. Yet total silence regarding a psychopathic bully? The SSA / Team Committee needs to make a statement very soon as both of these individuals did far, far less. A permanent ban from future competition seems appropriate and justified.

Ok, I'll let others who know something about it make those determinations.
The necessary penalties/consequences, if any, will likely be determined by the necessary individuals, as they have in the past. Doesn't seem to be a problem there. Seems to me like the process, if slow for some, is essentially working! There's plenty of intelligent discussion about it going on in another thread and likely within more official channels past, present, and future.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-7, Kevin Christner wrote:
Archer,

Worth repeating the relevant sections of the US Team Code of Conduct he

13.1.3 Courtesy. Courteous accessibility to visiting SSA members, sponsors, dignitaries and the Press.
13.1.4 Respect. Respect for the host organization, the facility, the rules of the airfield and the organization.
13.1.5 Treatment. Fair, considerate, courteous treatment of Team Management, Team Volunteers, and members of the public.
13.2.1 Highest Level. To maintain at all times a high standard of sportsmanship and fair play
13.2.6 Respect. Maintain an attitude of respect and politeness towards competitors both in the air and on the ground.
13.3 To Specifically Refrain From. To refrain from any behavior which might reflect unfavorably on the United States of America, the sport, the Team, its management, or which might bring any other pilot, official or the Team into disrepute

Rereading the document it is pretty clear to me that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition.

I think most rational observers would agree many lines were crossed long (honestly several years) ago but no one should have any remaining doubts. Several years back the US Team came very close to pulling a member (711) because of perceived personality issues and a junior team member (OO) was removed during a competition where he had won several days because the TC thought he was drinking too late at night. Yet total silence regarding a psychopathic bully? The SSA / Team Committee needs to make a statement very soon as both of these individuals did far, far less. A permanent ban from future competition seems appropriate and justified.

This is true. I was accused of being verbally abusive to women by one individual who later wrote me and apologized for this ( I accepted as I know the truth and we are friends, no problems, we do make mistakes). But the US Team held a "trial" on me and never invited me to that trial. Ya, that is what really ****ed me off! I was informed of this at the 2009 US 18 Meter Nationals. I was told the name of one, but not the other. Yes, great timing during a National contest where a pre-slot will be given for the next Worlds.. I was put on "probation" and could be removed at any time the Team Captain choose(the Team captain can do this at any time with anybody anyways!). But when at the US Team trailer at the WGC 2010, I did ask the Team Captain to talk ovr this. He talked around the issue. When I tried to excuse myself and leave the trailer, he blocked me in and then it became extremely heated. Lucky for all, as KM opened the door, the episode ended. I walked out. KM and his wife had lunch with me and we just talked our way around it. He and I are friends today, no problem!
I am not the only one who has had these false actions taken.
One US Team member who was notified that he was on the US Team. The very next day received a phone call stating that his father would not be allowed to crew for him at the WGC. Also, when the voting took place back years ago, calls were made to all who could vote and they were told if they voted for one individual, they would never be on the US Team.
Thiers, even more, I know. At the WGC Uvalde, major problems occurred. The US Team chairman was removed due to problems. A lot more on this. This same person also did his best to land me out during the WGC 2010. He even stated that and several are witnesses to this!
On the ramp in 2009 at the 18 Meter Nationals, I was put under pressure, as one Team member asked what I would do to help him stay on the US Team. Folks, some sick **** does happen.
Moving forward, 7T, Fidler, had a shot and turned it down as he wanted to go to both the 15 Meter and 18 Meter Worlds. ( HELLO, how does the US Team take a 3 day 95% ranking and turn it into a 100% ranking does not seem fair to the past and present 4 plus day 100% er's!). His want's are not allowed by current US Team policy, so he turned the 15 Meter slot down. I have many saved post's and also past IGC files. Heck, you can watch the SGP video on the final day where he even states he flew with the "Jerzey train". Big deal? No not at all! His choice as 7T team flew with 98 on the first day SGP Seminole and they had a bad day. Later I went to dinner with them and we joked about it. No problems! Now all this junk. WTF! All of us on certain weather days will fly with a group, we are "racing junkies" remember!
The full US Team is usually selected early Fall and starts having group phone calls late fall for the next years WGC. Plenty of time to make arrangements! When a pre-Worlds entrant was selected, only one or 2 went. They had to pay for 'both" contests(no reimbursement). (We only get a small reimbursement, to begin with).
I am not taking sides as all parties need to move forward. 7T you had a shot to go to the 2018 WGC and you simply "fXXked yourself". End of story.

Best. Tom Kelley #711.

Here is the relevant language from the SSA bylaws. It is time for the SSA board to move. We can no longer suffer this cancer.

ARTICLE VI - SUSPENSION, EXPULSION, ETC.

SECTION 1 - Any member may be dropped from the roll of membership for nonpayment of dues; and any member whose activities are deemed hostile to the objectives or injurious to the purpose of the Society, or who violates its bylaws or established rules, may be removed from office, suspended or expelled from the Society by vote of the Board of Directors.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 3:13:25 PM UTC-5, Kevin Christner wrote:
Here is the relevant language from the SSA bylaws. It is time for the SSA board to move. We can no longer suffer this cancer.

ARTICLE VI - SUSPENSION, EXPULSION, ETC.

SECTION 1 - Any member may be dropped from the roll of membership for nonpayment of dues; and any member whose activities are deemed hostile to the objectives or injurious to the purpose of the Society, or who violates its bylaws or established rules, may be removed from office, suspended or expelled from the Society by vote of the Board of Directors.

booting fidler from the SSA won't solve the problem kevin. i know you don't like the guy, and i know you have your reasons, but im telling you, they could do it, but it's not going to accomplish anything. and it definitely doesn't keep him off of RAS, which i think is where you've clashed with him most frequently.

Mr Christner,

You again have quoted a section of the US Team Code of Conduct, and this time you wrote that "it is pretty clear to [you] that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition."

But the United States Soaring Teams Policies & Procedures Manual (Ver 16 02/22/06) clearly states on the cover page the following:

"This manual was developed by the United States Soaring Team Committee as approved by the Board of Directors of the Soaring Society of America to govern United States Soaring Team participation in FAI World Gliding Championships."

The Introduction, on page 3, also makes it clear that these policies are for Team members "during" their time on a US Team. The next section discusses selection to the Team. It is thus unambiguous that these policies are specific to Team members once they have been selected for a particular WGC. Sure, it would be great if all pilots in contention for a Team position are as faultless in their personalities as they are fast in soaring. All y'all can't be Dick Butlers, unfortunately ...

But it is working against our Team goal to win WGCs if people like you insist that all possible USA Team pilots must be choirboys (or choirgirls -- hats off to WWGC Silver Medalist Sarah Arnold) not only at WGCs, but also at all times, in all situations, in all venues, in all years previous to any possible Team Selection.

You were not at the Benalla Worlds, Mr Christner. I myself was an official Team Member as defined in Section 10.2.4, being crew for Sean Fidler's 18m teammate, P7. Far more than most Team members, I was in a position to witness (before, during, and after the competition) Team 7T's exemplary behavior to all and sundry. Sean and Tiffany were super at fundraising for the Team before the WGC; they hosted our Team's party at Benalla, which greatly enhanced Team camaraderie; and after the competition, Sean Fidler was very helpful to other Team members in getting their gliders back into shipping containers.

So, I would appreciate it if you refrained from further ill-advised and erroneous public "guesses" regarding 7T's behavior as a USA Team member, as you are thus engaging in the same kind of behavior of which you complain in others.

I was impressed by how all of the USA Team members were superb ambassadors and representatives of the USA -- it was quite an honor to have been part of that endeavor.

Gina



On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 5:53:43 AM UTC+13, Kevin Christner wrote:
Archer,

Worth repeating the relevant sections of the US Team Code of Conduct he

13.1.3 Courtesy. Courteous accessibility to visiting SSA members, sponsors, dignitaries and the Press.
13.1.4 Respect. Respect for the host organization, the facility, the rules of the airfield and the organization.
13.1.5 Treatment. Fair, considerate, courteous treatment of Team Management, Team Volunteers, and members of the public.
13.2.1 Highest Level. To maintain at all times a high standard of sportsmanship and fair play
13.2.6 Respect. Maintain an attitude of respect and politeness towards competitors both in the air and on the ground.
13.3 To Specifically Refrain From. To refrain from any behavior which might reflect unfavorably on the United States of America, the sport, the Team, its management, or which might bring any other pilot, official or the Team into disrepute

Rereading the document it is pretty clear to me that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition.

I think most rational observers would agree many lines were crossed long (honestly several years) ago but no one should have any remaining doubts. Several years back the US Team came very close to pulling a member (711) because of perceived personality issues and a junior team member (OO) was removed during a competition where he had won several days because the TC thought he was drinking too late at night. Yet total silence regarding a psychopathic bully? The SSA / Team Committee needs to make a statement very soon as both of these individuals did far, far less. A permanent ban from future competition seems appropriate and justified.