Train Wreck

Archer,

Worth repeating the relevant sections of the US Team Code of Conduct he

13.1.3 Courtesy. Courteous accessibility to visiting SSA members, sponsors, dignitaries and the Press.
13.1.4 Respect. Respect for the host organization, the facility, the rules of the airfield and the organization.
13.1.5 Treatment. Fair, considerate, courteous treatment of Team Management, Team Volunteers, and members of the public.
13.2.1 Highest Level. To maintain at all times a high standard of sportsmanship and fair play
13.2.6 Respect. Maintain an attitude of respect and politeness towards competitors both in the air and on the ground.
13.3 To Specifically Refrain From. To refrain from any behavior which might reflect unfavorably on the United States of America, the sport, the Team, its management, or which might bring any other pilot, official or the Team into disrepute

Rereading the document it is pretty clear to me that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition.

I think most rational observers would agree many lines were crossed long (honestly several years) ago but no one should have any remaining doubts. Several years back the US Team came very close to pulling a member (711) because of perceived personality issues and a junior team member (OO) was removed during a competition where he had won several days because the TC thought he was drinking too late at night. Yet total silence regarding a psychopathic bully? The SSA / Team Committee needs to make a statement very soon as both of these individuals did far, far less. A permanent ban from future competition seems appropriate and justified.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-7, Kevin Christner wrote:
Archer,

Worth repeating the relevant sections of the US Team Code of Conduct he

13.1.3 Courtesy. Courteous accessibility to visiting SSA members, sponsors, dignitaries and the Press.
13.1.4 Respect. Respect for the host organization, the facility, the rules of the airfield and the organization.
13.1.5 Treatment. Fair, considerate, courteous treatment of Team Management, Team Volunteers, and members of the public.
13.2.1 Highest Level. To maintain at all times a high standard of sportsmanship and fair play
13.2.6 Respect. Maintain an attitude of respect and politeness towards competitors both in the air and on the ground.
13.3 To Specifically Refrain From. To refrain from any behavior which might reflect unfavorably on the United States of America, the sport, the Team, its management, or which might bring any other pilot, official or the Team into disrepute

Rereading the document it is pretty clear to me that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition.

I think most rational observers would agree many lines were crossed long (honestly several years) ago but no one should have any remaining doubts. Several years back the US Team came very close to pulling a member (711) because of perceived personality issues and a junior team member (OO) was removed during a competition where he had won several days because the TC thought he was drinking too late at night. Yet total silence regarding a psychopathic bully? The SSA / Team Committee needs to make a statement very soon as both of these individuals did far, far less. A permanent ban from future competition seems appropriate and justified.

Ok, I'll let others who know something about it make those determinations.
The necessary penalties/consequences, if any, will likely be determined by the necessary individuals, as they have in the past. Doesn't seem to be a problem there. Seems to me like the process, if slow for some, is essentially working! There's plenty of intelligent discussion about it going on in another thread and likely within more official channels past, present, and future.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 9:53:43 AM UTC-7, Kevin Christner wrote:
Archer,

Worth repeating the relevant sections of the US Team Code of Conduct he

13.1.3 Courtesy. Courteous accessibility to visiting SSA members, sponsors, dignitaries and the Press.
13.1.4 Respect. Respect for the host organization, the facility, the rules of the airfield and the organization.
13.1.5 Treatment. Fair, considerate, courteous treatment of Team Management, Team Volunteers, and members of the public.
13.2.1 Highest Level. To maintain at all times a high standard of sportsmanship and fair play
13.2.6 Respect. Maintain an attitude of respect and politeness towards competitors both in the air and on the ground.
13.3 To Specifically Refrain From. To refrain from any behavior which might reflect unfavorably on the United States of America, the sport, the Team, its management, or which might bring any other pilot, official or the Team into disrepute

Rereading the document it is pretty clear to me that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition.

I think most rational observers would agree many lines were crossed long (honestly several years) ago but no one should have any remaining doubts. Several years back the US Team came very close to pulling a member (711) because of perceived personality issues and a junior team member (OO) was removed during a competition where he had won several days because the TC thought he was drinking too late at night. Yet total silence regarding a psychopathic bully? The SSA / Team Committee needs to make a statement very soon as both of these individuals did far, far less. A permanent ban from future competition seems appropriate and justified.

This is true. I was accused of being verbally abusive to women by one individual who later wrote me and apologized for this ( I accepted as I know the truth and we are friends, no problems, we do make mistakes). But the US Team held a "trial" on me and never invited me to that trial. Ya, that is what really ****ed me off! I was informed of this at the 2009 US 18 Meter Nationals. I was told the name of one, but not the other. Yes, great timing during a National contest where a pre-slot will be given for the next Worlds.. I was put on "probation" and could be removed at any time the Team Captain choose(the Team captain can do this at any time with anybody anyways!). But when at the US Team trailer at the WGC 2010, I did ask the Team Captain to talk ovr this. He talked around the issue. When I tried to excuse myself and leave the trailer, he blocked me in and then it became extremely heated. Lucky for all, as KM opened the door, the episode ended. I walked out. KM and his wife had lunch with me and we just talked our way around it. He and I are friends today, no problem!
I am not the only one who has had these false actions taken.
One US Team member who was notified that he was on the US Team. The very next day received a phone call stating that his father would not be allowed to crew for him at the WGC. Also, when the voting took place back years ago, calls were made to all who could vote and they were told if they voted for one individual, they would never be on the US Team.
Thiers, even more, I know. At the WGC Uvalde, major problems occurred. The US Team chairman was removed due to problems. A lot more on this. This same person also did his best to land me out during the WGC 2010. He even stated that and several are witnesses to this!
On the ramp in 2009 at the 18 Meter Nationals, I was put under pressure, as one Team member asked what I would do to help him stay on the US Team. Folks, some sick **** does happen.
Moving forward, 7T, Fidler, had a shot and turned it down as he wanted to go to both the 15 Meter and 18 Meter Worlds. ( HELLO, how does the US Team take a 3 day 95% ranking and turn it into a 100% ranking does not seem fair to the past and present 4 plus day 100% er's!). His want's are not allowed by current US Team policy, so he turned the 15 Meter slot down. I have many saved post's and also past IGC files. Heck, you can watch the SGP video on the final day where he even states he flew with the "Jerzey train". Big deal? No not at all! His choice as 7T team flew with 98 on the first day SGP Seminole and they had a bad day. Later I went to dinner with them and we joked about it. No problems! Now all this junk. WTF! All of us on certain weather days will fly with a group, we are "racing junkies" remember!
The full US Team is usually selected early Fall and starts having group phone calls late fall for the next years WGC. Plenty of time to make arrangements! When a pre-Worlds entrant was selected, only one or 2 went. They had to pay for 'both" contests(no reimbursement). (We only get a small reimbursement, to begin with).
I am not taking sides as all parties need to move forward. 7T you had a shot to go to the 2018 WGC and you simply "fXXked yourself". End of story.

Best. Tom Kelley #711.

Here is the relevant language from the SSA bylaws. It is time for the SSA board to move. We can no longer suffer this cancer.

ARTICLE VI - SUSPENSION, EXPULSION, ETC.

SECTION 1 - Any member may be dropped from the roll of membership for nonpayment of dues; and any member whose activities are deemed hostile to the objectives or injurious to the purpose of the Society, or who violates its bylaws or established rules, may be removed from office, suspended or expelled from the Society by vote of the Board of Directors.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 3:13:25 PM UTC-5, Kevin Christner wrote:
Here is the relevant language from the SSA bylaws. It is time for the SSA board to move. We can no longer suffer this cancer.

ARTICLE VI - SUSPENSION, EXPULSION, ETC.

SECTION 1 - Any member may be dropped from the roll of membership for nonpayment of dues; and any member whose activities are deemed hostile to the objectives or injurious to the purpose of the Society, or who violates its bylaws or established rules, may be removed from office, suspended or expelled from the Society by vote of the Board of Directors.

booting fidler from the SSA won't solve the problem kevin. i know you don't like the guy, and i know you have your reasons, but im telling you, they could do it, but it's not going to accomplish anything. and it definitely doesn't keep him off of RAS, which i think is where you've clashed with him most frequently.

Mr Christner,

You again have quoted a section of the US Team Code of Conduct, and this time you wrote that "it is pretty clear to [you] that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition."

But the United States Soaring Teams Policies & Procedures Manual (Ver 16 02/22/06) clearly states on the cover page the following:

"This manual was developed by the United States Soaring Team Committee as approved by the Board of Directors of the Soaring Society of America to govern United States Soaring Team participation in FAI World Gliding Championships."

The Introduction, on page 3, also makes it clear that these policies are for Team members "during" their time on a US Team. The next section discusses selection to the Team. It is thus unambiguous that these policies are specific to Team members once they have been selected for a particular WGC. Sure, it would be great if all pilots in contention for a Team position are as faultless in their personalities as they are fast in soaring. All y'all can't be Dick Butlers, unfortunately ...

But it is working against our Team goal to win WGCs if people like you insist that all possible USA Team pilots must be choirboys (or choirgirls -- hats off to WWGC Silver Medalist Sarah Arnold) not only at WGCs, but also at all times, in all situations, in all venues, in all years previous to any possible Team Selection.

You were not at the Benalla Worlds, Mr Christner. I myself was an official Team Member as defined in Section 10.2.4, being crew for Sean Fidler's 18m teammate, P7. Far more than most Team members, I was in a position to witness (before, during, and after the competition) Team 7T's exemplary behavior to all and sundry. Sean and Tiffany were super at fundraising for the Team before the WGC; they hosted our Team's party at Benalla, which greatly enhanced Team camaraderie; and after the competition, Sean Fidler was very helpful to other Team members in getting their gliders back into shipping containers.

So, I would appreciate it if you refrained from further ill-advised and erroneous public "guesses" regarding 7T's behavior as a USA Team member, as you are thus engaging in the same kind of behavior of which you complain in others.

I was impressed by how all of the USA Team members were superb ambassadors and representatives of the USA -- it was quite an honor to have been part of that endeavor.

Gina



On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 5:53:43 AM UTC+13, Kevin Christner wrote:
Archer,

Worth repeating the relevant sections of the US Team Code of Conduct he

13.1.3 Courtesy. Courteous accessibility to visiting SSA members, sponsors, dignitaries and the Press.
13.1.4 Respect. Respect for the host organization, the facility, the rules of the airfield and the organization.
13.1.5 Treatment. Fair, considerate, courteous treatment of Team Management, Team Volunteers, and members of the public.
13.2.1 Highest Level. To maintain at all times a high standard of sportsmanship and fair play
13.2.6 Respect. Maintain an attitude of respect and politeness towards competitors both in the air and on the ground.
13.3 To Specifically Refrain From. To refrain from any behavior which might reflect unfavorably on the United States of America, the sport, the Team, its management, or which might bring any other pilot, official or the Team into disrepute

Rereading the document it is pretty clear to me that this is required at ALL times, not just during a competition.

I think most rational observers would agree many lines were crossed long (honestly several years) ago but no one should have any remaining doubts. Several years back the US Team came very close to pulling a member (711) because of perceived personality issues and a junior team member (OO) was removed during a competition where he had won several days because the TC thought he was drinking too late at night. Yet total silence regarding a psychopathic bully? The SSA / Team Committee needs to make a statement very soon as both of these individuals did far, far less. A permanent ban from future competition seems appropriate and justified.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 3:19:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:



So, I would appreciate it if you refrained from further ill-advised and erroneous public "guesses" regarding 7T's behavior as a USA Team member, ........
Gina

Gina,
7T's behavior at Benalla is not what is in question here. I am sure you realize this but you have decided, For whatever reason, to blur an important distinction. From what I am able to gather from the SSA website is that 7T was in fact offered a spot on the US team but declined. 7T's FB and personal web page do not make mention of this (Granted, I didn't dig too deep on either page). So which is it? Good ol boyz and cronyism or did the selection committee see the potential in his flying and offer a spot on the team.
Granted, I am not a fan of the hair pulling that goes on here (RAS), But one good thing that can come out of this thread is a discussion of the US Team decision to move off of a merit based system and the logic behind the current team member selections.

Someone wrote this to me:

"Gina,
7T's behavior at Benalla is not what is in question here. I am sure you realize this but you have decided, For whatever reason, to blur an important distinction."

If you are going to personally address me, it is common courtesy that you sign your posts.

If you read my two posts at RAS, you'll see that they are corrections of another poster's incorrect assumptions or statements. Mr Christner had quoted a portion of the US Team Code of Conduct and had asked John Cochrane if he could "certify that [7T] has met all of these requirements". Because John Cochrane was not in attendance at the Benalla WGC, I myself assured Mr Christner that Sean Fidler's behavior at the WGC was exemplary (as was the conduct of all the other Team Members).

Subsequently, Mr Christner quoted the same portion of the US Team Code of Conduct and opined that pilots are required to adhere to the Code "at ALL times, not just during a competition." I then corrected that mistaken assumption by quoting the relevant portions of the US Team Code of Conduct -- the Code is specific to WGC competitions and is not meant to be a requirement, 24-7, for all competition pilots who might possibly be future US Team Members.

It was important to make these corrections to Mr Christner's mistaken assumptions, because he was using them to support his call for a "permanent ban from future competition" for one of USA's top competition pilots.

It's always a good idea to correct mistaken assumptions or statements, especially when they are the argumentative basis for actions with very serious consequences, don't you agree, Mr or Ms Somebody?

Gina



On Friday, November 10, 2017 at 4:16:37 AM UTC+13, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 3:19:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:



So, I would appreciate it if you refrained from further ill-advised and erroneous public "guesses" regarding 7T's behavior as a USA Team member, ........
Gina

Gina,
7T's behavior at Benalla is not what is in question here. I am sure you realize this but you have decided, For whatever reason, to blur an important distinction. From what I am able to gather from the SSA website is that 7T was in fact offered a spot on the US team but declined. 7T's FB and personal web page do not make mention of this (Granted, I didn't dig too deep on either page). So which is it? Good ol boyz and cronyism or did the selection committee see the potential in his flying and offer a spot on the team.
Granted, I am not a fan of the hair pulling that goes on here (RAS), But one good thing that can come out of this thread is a discussion of the US Team decision to move off of a merit based system and the logic behind the current team member selections.

On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 2:10:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Someone wrote this to me:

"Gina,
7T's behavior at Benalla is not what is in question here. I am sure you realize this but you have decided, For whatever reason, to blur an important distinction."

If you are going to personally address me, it is common courtesy that you sign your posts.

If you read my two posts at RAS, you'll see that they are corrections of another poster's incorrect assumptions or statements. Mr Christner had quoted a portion of the US Team Code of Conduct and had asked John Cochrane if he could "certify that [7T] has met all of these requirements". Because John Cochrane was not in attendance at the Benalla WGC, I myself assured Mr Christner that Sean Fidler's behavior at the WGC was exemplary (as was the conduct of all the other Team Members).

Subsequently, Mr Christner quoted the same portion of the US Team Code of Conduct and opined that pilots are required to adhere to the Code "at ALL times, not just during a competition." I then corrected that mistaken assumption by quoting the relevant portions of the US Team Code of Conduct -- the Code is specific to WGC competitions and is not meant to be a requirement, 24-7, for all competition pilots who might possibly be future US Team Members.

It was important to make these corrections to Mr Christner's mistaken assumptions, because he was using them to support his call for a "permanent ban from future competition" for one of USA's top competition pilots.

It's always a good idea to correct mistaken assumptions or statements, especially when they are the argumentative basis for actions with very serious consequences, don't you agree, Mr or Ms Somebody?

Gina



On Friday, November 10, 2017 at 4:16:37 AM UTC+13, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 3:19:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:



So, I would appreciate it if you refrained from further ill-advised and erroneous public "guesses" regarding 7T's behavior as a USA Team member, .......
Gina

Gina,
7T's behavior at Benalla is not what is in question here. I am sure you realize this but you have decided, For whatever reason, to blur an important distinction. From what I am able to gather from the SSA website is that 7T was in fact offered a spot on the US team but declined. 7T's FB and personal web page do not make mention of this (Granted, I didn't dig too deep on either page). So which is it? Good ol boyz and cronyism or did the selection committee see the potential in his flying and offer a spot on the team.
Granted, I am not a fan of the hair pulling that goes on here (RAS), But one good thing that can come out of this thread is a discussion of the US Team decision to move off of a merit based system and the logic behind the current team member selections.

Gina, (if this really is Gina?), You and I have chatted over the years. You have even helped me at contest's and we have shared dinners chatting. Since Sean wishes honesty, I share the below as it's a direct copy of a post to Seans FB page by another. Why does the poster state what you share differently?

Sean Fidler Soaring
October 31 at 8:38am ·
From an unnamed friend this AM.
“What fools. So a guy (Sean Fidler) wins his second competition day at
a World Championships (totally unheard of) in the 18m class (with a
teammate who refused to team fly and with virtually no team support,
wife had to communicate) and is skipped over in the selection that
SAME year for the next world championships for an insider (Good old
boy pet) who was way behind in the their countries own international
rankings (which use different rules). What’s the problem? That sounds
completely justifiable. Nothing to see here. Move along. Extended
laughter...Jesus F Christ...f€%k that and F$&k them...you have been
right all along Sean...�
Well said I think.
Next statement...�you know the test on this is to ask yourself, if the
situation was reversed, would you have been picked?�
Next statement...�that’s borderline criminal...�
Thanks everyone but the decision is final.


Sean even states "The decision is final". So, Gina, the above poster does state their were problems which you never saw. So, by what "others" are seeing/reading, they are simply giving their comments/views. Honest communication, by all parties, could end this. But this train wreck has had earlier derailments, which have never been corrected. In most, if not all sports, this is seen/experienced.

Thanks Gina, Best. Tom #711.

Hi, Tom

The purpose of your post isn't entirely clear to me. You rather vaguely indicate that others "saw" "problems" that I never saw. If you meant "problems" regarding 7T's behavior at the Worlds, then of course I am not witness to, or privy to, everything that took place at Benalla. I never claimed such omniscience. Other Team Members are naturally welcome to state their own opinions regarding what they personally witnessed, if they are so inclined.

I'll repeat this one more time. Kevin Christner, who was not at the Benalla WGC, suggested that 7T would not be able to meet the requirements of the US Team Code of Conduct. As someone who spent more time in the presence of Team 7T than most everyone else on the US Team, I felt qualified to reply to Mr Christner and reveal what I witnessed, day after day, week after week, at the Worlds in January. I repeat -- I witnessed nothing but exemplary behavior from Team 7T.

If anyone believes that I am not entitled to my own opinion in this regard, then please do us all a favor and keep it to yourself.

Gina



Gina, (if this really is Gina?), You and I have chatted over the years. You have even helped me at contest's and we have shared dinners chatting. Since Sean wishes honesty, I share the below as it's a direct copy of a post to Seans FB page by another. Why does the poster state what you share differently?

Sean Fidler Soaring
October 31 at 8:38am ·
From an unnamed friend this AM.
“What fools. So a guy (Sean Fidler) wins his second competition day at
a World Championships (totally unheard of) in the 18m class (with a
teammate who refused to team fly and with virtually no team support,
wife had to communicate) and is skipped over in the selection that
SAME year for the next world championships for an insider (Good old
boy pet) who was way behind in the their countries own international
rankings (which use different rules). What’s the problem? That sounds
completely justifiable. Nothing to see here. Move along. Extended
laughter...Jesus F Christ...f€%k that and F$&k them...you have been
right all along Sean...�
Well said I think.
Next statement...�you know the test on this is to ask yourself, if the
situation was reversed, would you have been picked?�
Next statement...�that’s borderline criminal...�
Thanks everyone but the decision is final.


Sean even states "The decision is final". So, Gina, the above poster does state their were problems which you never saw. So, by what "others" are seeing/reading, they are simply giving their comments/views. Honest communication, by all parties, could end this. But this train wreck has had earlier derailments, which have never been corrected. In most, if not all sports, this is seen/experienced.

Thanks Gina, Best. Tom #711.