737 vs glider

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 11:23:46 AM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 8:00:40 AM UTC-7, Tom BravoMike wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 10:15:59 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
Anyone have more details about it? In particular, was the glider equipped with transponder? This is not good rep for us, but could have been worse.
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/uni...00000080461661

Ramy

Last Friday, Sept. 22, when soaring south of Ionia, MI (somewhere on Grand Rapids and Lansing line), I suddenly saw a business jet (size of Cessna Citation or bigger) crossing in front and above, probably less then a 1000' higher than myself (5K-6K MSL altitude). Whether he saw me or not, I don't know. That close encounter and the incident described in this thread make me even more convinced: ADS-B for ALL (including gliders and drones) is the future. Very near future...

And including Air Force jets! It's been ****ing me off this year to have near encounters with fighter jets that don't emit ADS-B on training flights in shared airspace. It's just asinine that the Air Force hasn't got it done yet and says they won't meet 2020 (per an article I read).

I was on downwind to land my Taurus on a small strip in the Virginia Blue Ridge Mountains. My transponder started blinking which does not normally happen in mountain valleys. Then two F-16s whizzed by at the same (very low) altitude not much more that 500 ft away. I do not know if they saw me. I have an appointment to get ADS-B installed next week and wonder if it will help.

FWIW, I had a close encounter with an F-15 a few years ago. Local ATC had been sending inbound military traffic over our class D airspace at 3500 feet. I called local ATC, their response was "if you do not have a transponder I cannot see you". New young controllers rely totally on the technology. We have since had several get meetings and now have a great relationship with them.

Also gliders when circling have a ground speed that is less than 40 mph so the radar software ignores the contact. So "type and altitude unknown" call will not be made.

C5

No wonder piper cubs are painted yellow,.

Seems even old glider pilots rely more on ATC keeping them from conflict
than with keeping a good eye outside.Â* It's not just an affliction of
the young.

On 11/17/2017 6:45 AM, wrote:
FWIW, I had a close encounter with an F-15 a few years ago. Local ATC had been sending inbound military traffic over our class D airspace at 3500 feet. I called local ATC, their response was "if you do not have a transponder I cannot see you". New young controllers rely totally on the technology. We have since had several get meetings and now have a great relationship with them.

Also gliders when circling have a ground speed that is less than 40 mph so the radar software ignores the contact. So "type and altitude unknown" call will not be made.

C5

--
Dan, 5J

Some 20 years ago I was coming in to land a glider at a smallish airport in NE US, where I was towed out of earlier that day, and when I was crossing the field at pattern altitude a pair of military jets passed UNDER me. It was July 3. and they were practicing for the next day's official fly-by. I was not pleased.


On Friday, November 17, 2017 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-5, wrote:
FWIW, I had a close encounter with an F-15 a few years ago. Local ATC had been sending inbound military traffic over our class D airspace at 3500 feet. I called local ATC, their response was "if you do not have a transponder I cannot see you". New young controllers rely totally on the technology. We have since had several get meetings and now have a great relationship with them.

Also gliders when circling have a ground speed that is less than 40 mph so the radar software ignores the contact. So "type and altitude unknown" call will not be made.

C5

More like 25+ years ago I was circling at 600agl over a remote dirt landing strip, Swee****er, Nevada getting ready for a X-country off field landing.... when suddenly an F-4 flew directly under me. It was terrain flying down the valley near Mount Patterson at 100ft or so agl.

No transponder back then.

I was on downwind to land my Taurus on a small strip in the Virginia Blue Ridge Mountains. My transponder started blinking which does not normally happen in mountain valleys. Then two F-16s whizzed by at the same (very low) altitude not much more that 500 ft away. I do not know if they saw me. I have an appointment to get ADS-B installed next week and wonder if it will help.

The reason you transponder was blinking is probably that the F-16s were interrogating you - almost all US fighters have transponder interrogators and can trigger your transponder - your location is then shown on the fighter's radar display (correlated to a radar hit if it is looking there). With a radar lock, the pilot will then see you highlighted in his HUD or helmet.

Some of you seem to think the military doesn't care about midairs and is nonchalant about zooming around at low level. That is totally wrong - dead is dead whether you are in a 1-26 or an F-35! And the systems in mil aircraft put civilian aircraft to shame. For example, the F-15E that I'm most familiar with has a transponder working on Modes 1, 2, 3 (A % C), 4, 5, and S; an interrogator that can look for all those modes, a radar that can pick you up well over 100 miles away; a targeting pod that can identify you visually; a huge bubble canopy so you can actually see out (much like a glider but unlike just about any other civilian plane - especially airliners) and two highly trained and motivated aircrew that really don't want to hit you.

If you don't have either a transponder or a PowerFLARM in you glider, you are a big part of the problem.

And yes, military is getting ADS-B in it's aircraft - but that takes time and money. You want a tax hike to pay for it? I do, but I doubt you could convince Congress!

Kirk
66

On Friday, November 17, 2017 at 1:30:58 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:

Some of you seem to think the military doesn't care about midairs and is nonchalant about zooming around at low level. That is totally wrong - dead is dead whether you are in a 1-26 or an F-35! . . .
If you don't have either a transponder or a PowerFLARM in you glider, you are a big part of the problem.
Kirk
66

snip

What he said. I've had transponders in all the gliders I've owned since 1996, and for sure the military guys ARE paying attention! Once while ridge soaring on a ridge in the middle of the Shenandoah Valley, I spotted a couple of jets right off the deck coming in my general direction (yes, the xponder was blinking lilke all get-out). I watched both of them swing away, rock there wings at me, and drop right back down on their course.
The Curmudgeon

Tax hike? No.Â* How about a welfare reduction?

Otherwise, great information!

On 11/17/2017 11:30 AM, kirk.stant wrote:
I was on downwind to land my Taurus on a small strip in the Virginia Blue Ridge Mountains. My transponder started blinking which does not normally happen in mountain valleys. Then two F-16s whizzed by at the same (very low) altitude not much more that 500 ft away. I do not know if they saw me. I have an appointment to get ADS-B installed next week and wonder if it will help.
The reason you transponder was blinking is probably that the F-16s were interrogating you - almost all US fighters have transponder interrogators and can trigger your transponder - your location is then shown on the fighter's radar display (correlated to a radar hit if it is looking there). With a radar lock, the pilot will then see you highlighted in his HUD or helmet.

Some of you seem to think the military doesn't care about midairs and is nonchalant about zooming around at low level. That is totally wrong - dead is dead whether you are in a 1-26 or an F-35! And the systems in mil aircraft put civilian aircraft to shame. For example, the F-15E that I'm most familiar with has a transponder working on Modes 1, 2, 3 (A % C), 4, 5, and S; an interrogator that can look for all those modes, a radar that can pick you up well over 100 miles away; a targeting pod that can identify you visually; a huge bubble canopy so you can actually see out (much like a glider but unlike just about any other civilian plane - especially airliners) and two highly trained and motivated aircrew that really don't want to hit you.

If you don't have either a transponder or a PowerFLARM in you glider, you are a big part of the problem.

And yes, military is getting ADS-B in it's aircraft - but that takes time and money. You want a tax hike to pay for it? I do, but I doubt you could convince Congress!

Kirk
66

--
Dan, 5J

You are, of course, talking about a corporate welfare reduction I assume Dan?

Lou