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Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 13th 04, 07:47 AM
Bill Shatzer
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"Steven P. McNicoll" ) writes:

-snip-

Criticism of Kerry's Purple Heart is just


Retired U.S. army colonel David Hackworth defends presidential
candidate John Kerry's Purple Hearts. He correctly notes that they are
awarded for a wound that necessitates treatment by a medical officer and
that is received in action with an enemy ('The meaning of a Purple Heart,"
The Forum, June 16).


I was the commanding officer to whom Kerry reported his injury on Dec.
3, 1968. I had confirmed that there was no hostile fire that night and that
Kerry had simply wounded himself with an M-79 grenade round he fired too
close.


Basically crap, Steven. Army Regulations re the Purple Heart:

(b) Individuals wounded or killed as a result of
"friendly fire" in the "heat of battle" will be
awarded the Purple Heart as long as the "friendly"
projectile or agent was released with the full
intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy
troops or equipment.

I'd assume the Navy regulations are essentially similar.

In any case, if I recall correctly, it was freakin' -impossible-
to wound oneself by firing an M-79 round "too close".

An M-79 round had to travel a certain distance before arming itself
and that distance was greater than the "kill radius" of the round.

If one fired an M-79 round "too close", it would simply impact with
a thud and no "boom".

Presenting a possible problem for the ordinance disposal folks who
came along later but no particular problem for the firer.

Sheesh.
--


"Cave ab homine unius libri"
  #2  
Old July 13th 04, 08:38 AM
D. Strang
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"Bill Shatzer" wrote

In any case, if I recall correctly, it was freakin' -impossible-
to wound oneself by firing an M-79 round "too close".


According to his crew:

They were shooting at rocks along the shore, and he got hit by
a piece of shrapnel (a sliver). Lucky *******.

Pretty typical stuff, that killed a lot of troops who weren't so lucky.
I know four guys in two tours, who have their name on the wall, who
killed themselves doing stuff this stupid.


  #3  
Old July 13th 04, 09:51 PM
ian maclure
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On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 02:38:46 -0500, D. Strang wrote:

[snip]

Pretty typical stuff, that killed a lot of troops who weren't so lucky.
I know four guys in two tours, who have their name on the wall, who
killed themselves doing stuff this stupid.


And willfully stupid at that.
You try telling them to stop before somebody gets killed
and see what thanks you get for it.

IBM

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  #4  
Old July 13th 04, 01:48 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Bill Shatzer" wrote in message
...

Basically crap, Steven. Army Regulations re the Purple Heart:

(b) Individuals wounded or killed as a result of
"friendly fire" in the "heat of battle" will be
awarded the Purple Heart as long as the "friendly"
projectile or agent was released with the full
intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy
troops or equipment.

I'd assume the Navy regulations are essentially similar.



There apparently was no battle to be in the heat of.



In any case, if I recall correctly, it was freakin' -impossible-
to wound oneself by firing an M-79 round "too close".


Kerry's experience suggests otherwise.


  #5  
Old July 13th 04, 08:20 PM
Bill Shatzer
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"Steven P. McNicoll" ) writes:
"Bill Shatzer" wrote in message
...


Basically crap, Steven. Army Regulations re the Purple Heart:


(b) Individuals wounded or killed as a result of
"friendly fire" in the "heat of battle" will be
awarded the Purple Heart as long as the "friendly"
projectile or agent was released with the full
intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy
troops or equipment.


I'd assume the Navy regulations are essentially similar.


There apparently was no battle to be in the heat of.


Assumed but not proven. In any case irrelevant if the folks
-thought- they were in a battle.

You think those folks in the Bradley who got zapped by a blue
on blue Maverick didn't get PHs? There was no -real- battle,
they were just motoring along when the A-10 mistook them for
a T-72 or whatever. The A-10 driver -thought- it was a battle.

In any case, if I recall correctly, it was freakin' -impossible-
to wound oneself by firing an M-79 round "too close".


Kerry's experience suggests otherwise.


"Purported" experience. The things have to cover a minimum
distance before they arm themselves and that distance is
sufficient to place the shooter outside of the blast/shrapnel
radius.

I recall one story from the vietnam conflict where an army
surgeon got written up for removing an unexploded M-79 round
from an ARVN trooper. -He- got shot by friendly fire but the
round hadn't traveled far enough to arm itself.

Cheers,


--


"Cave ab homine unius libri"
  #6  
Old July 15th 04, 04:05 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Bill Shatzer" wrote in message
...

Assumed but not proven. In any case irrelevant if the folks
-thought- they were in a battle.


Kerry's crew said there was no enemy fire, so the folks didn't think they
were in a battle.



You think those folks in the Bradley who got zapped by a blue
on blue Maverick didn't get PHs? There was no -real- battle,
they were just motoring along when the A-10 mistook them for
a T-72 or whatever. The A-10 driver -thought- it was a battle.


Irrelevant.



"Purported" experience. The things have to cover a minimum
distance before they arm themselves and that distance is
sufficient to place the shooter outside of the blast/shrapnel
radius.

I recall one story from the vietnam conflict where an army
surgeon got written up for removing an unexploded M-79 round
from an ARVN trooper. -He- got shot by friendly fire but the
round hadn't traveled far enough to arm itself.


Based on the best information, Kerry was not entitled to that award.


  #7  
Old July 17th 04, 06:32 AM
Bill Shatzer
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"Steven P. McNicoll" ) writes:
"Bill Shatzer" wrote in message
...


Assumed but not proven. In any case irrelevant if the folks
-thought- they were in a battle.


Kerry's crew said there was no enemy fire, so the folks didn't think they
were in a battle.


No, that's not correct at all.

His former commander (one echelon removed) now claims that's
what they said. The crew currently claim no such thing.

With one exception, -everyone- who served under Kerry on the
Swift boats speaks most highly of him and NONE claim it was
anything but a battle. Or, at least an assumed battle.

You think those folks in the Bradley who got zapped by a blue
on blue Maverick didn't get PHs? There was no -real- battle,
they were just motoring along when the A-10 mistook them for
a T-72 or whatever. The A-10 driver -thought- it was a battle.


Irrelevant.


Quite relevant.

"Purported" experience. The things have to cover a minimum
distance before they arm themselves and that distance is
sufficient to place the shooter outside of the blast/shrapnel
radius.


I recall one story from the vietnam conflict where an army
surgeon got written up for removing an unexploded M-79 round
from an ARVN trooper. -He- got shot by friendly fire but the
round hadn't traveled far enough to arm itself.


Based on the best information, Kerry was not entitled to that award.


Based on the best information, there is no way he could put
shrapnel into himself from his own M-79 round. The damn things
just don't work that way.

Based upon the best information, he was fully entitled to his
Purple Heart.
--


"Cave ab homine unius libri"
 




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