Buy Glider without looking

It appears that a couple of the inquires I received are from scammers.

First guy got me down on price a little, said he would send a check, got my name and address. All coms via email and coms were very proper. Almost too good. He responded days after each of his inquires even when I responded immediately to his. I never received a check so I contacted an inquirer only a day after the deal with 1st buyer.

Second guy texted and took a long time to respond back. I looked up his area code in Oregon. Oregon is a long way from NC to buy a glider, or are there no decent glider on the west coast?
He wanted my Name and physical address and not my PO box. Later he wanted my email address to let me know the check was on the way. I said to just text me that info and that I do not give out my email address. I then asked him to call me or I would assume he is a scammer. He called and the connection was poor and delayed, but I was able to pick out a south African accent. Told him connection was too bad and I could not understand him. I asked for his name and pilot certificate number. He text back "Sorry am an engine, Marine engine. and i only request for my son Birthday gift. His a pilot." BTW, first guy was also buyer glider for his son.

BTW, I have sold many high value items over the web. Once I received a stolen check from church in Ohio. Another time received a counterfeit cashiers check from a bank in NY. Check looked real, but then the emblem was just so slightly blurred. Bank in NY did not have that check number on file. Never heard back from either of those guys. And there have been several dozen more I've either ignored or played around with. Talked to a guy in Kenya for awhile on the phone once. I could hear other conversations in the background.

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels, or 2) fellow sellers are trying to discourage other sellers with possibly similar gliders to withdraw their ad due to getting frustrated with scammers, leaving less completion form them in selling their gliders.

Anything is possible.

On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,

Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard

On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,

Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard

Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom

The last glider I sold, the buyer came to inspect the ship.Â* It was
clear he was a good guy from the USA so I accepted his personal check
for a down payment.Â* I agreed to deliver the glider half way to his
place and he wired the remaining funds into my account before I left
Moriarty.Â* I didn't ask for that; it just worked out that way with
banking hours, etc.Â* We met in a motel parking lot in Kingman, AZ, we
and our wives shared dinner, he paid for dinner and our rooms, and we
parted as friends, both of us happy.Â* My wife and I also enjoyed the
road trip down old Route 66 through Peach Springs, AZ.Â* Do you remember
Burma Shave ads?

On 12/14/2017 11:07 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,
Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard
Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom

--
Dan, 5J

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 9:11:38 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
The last glider I sold, the buyer came to inspect the ship.Â* It was
clear he was a good guy from the USA so I accepted his personal check
for a down payment.Â* I agreed to deliver the glider half way to his
place and he wired the remaining funds into my account before I left
Moriarty.Â* I didn't ask for that; it just worked out that way with
banking hours, etc.Â* We met in a motel parking lot in Kingman, AZ, we
and our wives shared dinner, he paid for dinner and our rooms, and we
parted as friends, both of us happy.Â* My wife and I also enjoyed the
road trip down old Route 66 through Peach Springs, AZ.Â* Do you remember
Burma Shave ads?

On 12/14/2017 11:07 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,
Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard
Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom

--
Dan, 5J

A personal check, or a cashier's check, is ok if you have the luxury of time. It will take up to a week for the check to clear (US bank only). I wouldn't even think of it for a foreign bank. This helps make the sale take place, which is what you are trying to make happen in the first place.

Delivery should be explicitly stated in the original ad. For instance, you can state you will deliver the glider within an xx mile radius at no cost. Or you can add a mileage cost. It's all up to you. This usually reflects how hard or soft the market is for used gliders, and the economy overall. Basically, tho, once payment is made the new owner takes possession and it is up to him/her to move it (and don't forget about insurance!)

Tom

As I said, he was a good guy and I like to think that I am, too. Moving
the ship was my suggestion as he was on the west coast and I felt the
need for a road trip any way (I'm retired).Â* The insurance was mine
until I handed him the keys to the trailer then I called my insurance
agent and told him that I'd sold the glider.Â* It was a one time thing.Â*
Some times you can tell if a deal is fishy but this time I knew it was
not.Â* There was time for the personal check to clear but the thought
never crossed my mind.

When I sold my Pipistrel, the buyer gave me a personal check for the
down payment and flew back down to Moriarty a week or so later to pick
it up.Â* Again his check cleared.Â* Final payment was mostly with a wire
transfer but also with a wad of cash.Â* Insurance was handled as previously.

When I bought my LAK-17a, I drove 500 or so miles to look at it and took
it for a 2 hour test flight.Â* We agreed on the sale and the next day I
wired the money, took possession, and drove away.

Not every transaction has to be hard assed, but there is the time for
that, too.

On 12/16/2017 6:23 PM, 2G wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 9:11:38 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
The last glider I sold, the buyer came to inspect the ship.Â* It was
clear he was a good guy from the USA so I accepted his personal check
for a down payment.Â* I agreed to deliver the glider half way to his
place and he wired the remaining funds into my account before I left
Moriarty.Â* I didn't ask for that; it just worked out that way with
banking hours, etc.Â* We met in a motel parking lot in Kingman, AZ, we
and our wives shared dinner, he paid for dinner and our rooms, and we
parted as friends, both of us happy.Â* My wife and I also enjoyed the
road trip down old Route 66 through Peach Springs, AZ.Â* Do you remember
Burma Shave ads?

On 12/14/2017 11:07 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,
Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard
Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom
--
Dan, 5J
A personal check, or a cashier's check, is ok if you have the luxury of time. It will take up to a week for the check to clear (US bank only). I wouldn't even think of it for a foreign bank. This helps make the sale take place, which is what you are trying to make happen in the first place.

Delivery should be explicitly stated in the original ad. For instance, you can state you will deliver the glider within an xx mile radius at no cost. Or you can add a mileage cost. It's all up to you. This usually reflects how hard or soft the market is for used gliders, and the economy overall. Basically, tho, once payment is made the new owner takes possession and it is up to him/her to move it (and don't forget about insurance!)

Tom

--
Dan, 5J

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 8:38:56 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
As I said, he was a good guy and I like to think that I am, too. Moving
the ship was my suggestion as he was on the west coast and I felt the
need for a road trip any way (I'm retired).Â* The insurance was mine
until I handed him the keys to the trailer then I called my insurance
agent and told him that I'd sold the glider.Â* It was a one time thing.Â*
Some times you can tell if a deal is fishy but this time I knew it was
not.Â* There was time for the personal check to clear but the thought
never crossed my mind.

When I sold my Pipistrel, the buyer gave me a personal check for the
down payment and flew back down to Moriarty a week or so later to pick
it up.Â* Again his check cleared.Â* Final payment was mostly with a wire
transfer but also with a wad of cash.Â* Insurance was handled as previously.

When I bought my LAK-17a, I drove 500 or so miles to look at it and took
it for a 2 hour test flight.Â* We agreed on the sale and the next day I
wired the money, took possession, and drove away.

Not every transaction has to be hard assed, but there is the time for
that, too.

On 12/16/2017 6:23 PM, 2G wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 9:11:38 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
The last glider I sold, the buyer came to inspect the ship.Â* It was
clear he was a good guy from the USA so I accepted his personal check
for a down payment.Â* I agreed to deliver the glider half way to his
place and he wired the remaining funds into my account before I left
Moriarty.Â* I didn't ask for that; it just worked out that way with
banking hours, etc.Â* We met in a motel parking lot in Kingman, AZ, we
and our wives shared dinner, he paid for dinner and our rooms, and we
parted as friends, both of us happy.Â* My wife and I also enjoyed the
road trip down old Route 66 through Peach Springs, AZ.Â* Do you remember
Burma Shave ads?

On 12/14/2017 11:07 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,
Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard
Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom
--
Dan, 5J
A personal check, or a cashier's check, is ok if you have the luxury of time. It will take up to a week for the check to clear (US bank only). I wouldn't even think of it for a foreign bank. This helps make the sale take place, which is what you are trying to make happen in the first place.

Delivery should be explicitly stated in the original ad. For instance, you can state you will deliver the glider within an xx mile radius at no cost. Or you can add a mileage cost. It's all up to you. This usually reflects how hard or soft the market is for used gliders, and the economy overall. Basically, tho, once payment is made the new owner takes possession and it is up to him/her to move it (and don't forget about insurance!)

Tom

--
Dan, 5J

My comment wasn't directed towards you (your sale was completed w/o any problems) - it was directed towards those that hadn't been thru it before. Note: you really don't know when the check clears. You bank will credit the amount to your account before it clears based on several factors. If you are running balances in excess of the check amount and have been doing business with the bank for a number of years they will allow to use that amount before they get the money from the payer's bank. But try doing that for a very large amount and you can expect your bank to put a hold on that check until it clears the payer's bank. The one week figure is just an estimate. The advantage of a wire transfer means you know with certainty that the transaction is complete.

Again, glider sellers bewa cashier's checks can, and are, forged.

Another issue on buying any aircraft is its title. There have been cases of people selling planes that they did not have clear title to (their banks did). Get title insurance if you are not absolutely certain of the seller, and then buy it anyway even if you are.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...need-it-or-not
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft...scrow-services
https://www.aictitle.com/
http://www.federalaviationtitle.com/...insurance.html

Tom