Death of the 13.5m class?

If this is "soaring," then no external power or induced thrust should be allowed. Start the engine, turn a prop (or turbine, or compressed air jet, or stick an oar out the window or whatever) and you are now a powered aircraft. In competition, the flight STOPS THERE. (Just like the OLC.) No exceptions. If you elect to augment your flight to make it home when getting too low for comfort and do not want to accept a landout, too bad. The scoresheet should reflect that you decided to terminate soaring flight at that point.

Also remember that virtually ALL external power sources (Reciprocating engine, Turbine or Electric CAN fail. And the insidious "Emergency Algorithm" dictates that it will most probably fail at the absolutely WORST time, i.e., too low over bad terrain when you have not previously selected an appropriate landing area and planned how to get in to it safely.

An auxiliary power source is a neat thing to have. Just remember that it is NOT a "Safety" device. It is best if you just treat it as a way to avoid inconvenience. Betting on it to save your sorry butt in a competition (or on any flight) is just asking for trouble.

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 at 7:39:40 PM UTC-7, wrote:
If this is "soaring," then no external power or induced thrust should be allowed. Start the engine, turn a prop (or turbine, or compressed air jet, or stick an oar out the window or whatever) and you are now a powered aircraft. In competition, the flight STOPS THERE. (Just like the OLC.) No exceptions. If you elect to augment your flight to make it home when getting too low for comfort and do not want to accept a landout, too bad. The scoresheet should reflect that you decided to terminate soaring flight at that point..

Also remember that virtually ALL external power sources (Reciprocating engine, Turbine or Electric CAN fail. And the insidious "Emergency Algorithm" dictates that it will most probably fail at the absolutely WORST time, i.e.., too low over bad terrain when you have not previously selected an appropriate landing area and planned how to get in to it safely.

An auxiliary power source is a neat thing to have. Just remember that it is NOT a "Safety" device. It is best if you just treat it as a way to avoid inconvenience. Betting on it to save your sorry butt in a competition (or on any flight) is just asking for trouble.

I agree with this completely!

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 at 6:39:40 PM UTC-8, wrote:
If this is "soaring," then no external power or induced thrust should be allowed. Start the engine, turn a prop (or turbine, or compressed air jet, or stick an oar out the window or whatever) and you are now a powered aircraft. In competition, the flight STOPS THERE. (Just like the OLC.) No exceptions. If you elect to augment your flight to make it home when getting too low for comfort and do not want to accept a landout, too bad. The scoresheet should reflect that you decided to terminate soaring flight at that point..

Also remember that virtually ALL external power sources (Reciprocating engine, Turbine or Electric CAN fail. And the insidious "Emergency Algorithm" dictates that it will most probably fail at the absolutely WORST time, i.e.., too low over bad terrain when you have not previously selected an appropriate landing area and planned how to get in to it safely.

An auxiliary power source is a neat thing to have. Just remember that it is NOT a "Safety" device. It is best if you just treat it as a way to avoid inconvenience. Betting on it to save your sorry butt in a competition (or on any flight) is just asking for trouble.

I don't think the allowed use of a motor in competition without precipitating a mandator handout doesn't anything to change the fact that a motor is not a safety device. At the same time, I don't think in an event where every glider is equipped with electric propulsion it is necessarily mandatory anymore to treat motor use as a mandatory landout. That's the point that people seem to be missing. It's a new form of the sport, one where you aren't knocked out of the contest if you miss a critical climb.

That seems worth looking at.

9B

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 at 9:18:45 PM UTC-8, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Sunday, December 24, 2017 at 6:39:40 PM UTC-8, wrote:
If this is "soaring," then no external power or induced thrust should be allowed. Start the engine, turn a prop (or turbine, or compressed air jet, or stick an oar out the window or whatever) and you are now a powered aircraft. In competition, the flight STOPS THERE. (Just like the OLC.) No exceptions. If you elect to augment your flight to make it home when getting too low for comfort and do not want to accept a landout, too bad. The scoresheet should reflect that you decided to terminate soaring flight at that point.

wrote on 12/24/2017 6:39 PM:
If this is "soaring," then no external power or induced thrust should be allowed. Start the engine, turn a prop (or turbine, or compressed air jet, or stick an oar out the window or whatever) and you are now a powered aircraft. In competition, the flight STOPS THERE. (Just like the OLC.) No exceptions. If you elect to augment your flight to make it home when getting too low for comfort and do not want to accept a landout, too bad. The scoresheet should reflect that you decided to terminate soaring flight at that point.

Also remember that virtually ALL external power sources (Reciprocating engine, Turbine or Electric CAN fail. And the insidious "Emergency Algorithm" dictates that it will most probably fail at the absolutely WORST time, i.e., too low over bad terrain when you have not previously selected an appropriate landing area and planned how to get in to it safely.

An auxiliary power source is a neat thing to have. Just remember that it is NOT a "Safety" device. It is best if you just treat it as a way to avoid inconvenience. Betting on it to save your sorry butt in a competition (or on any flight) is just asking for trouble.

What about a glider with a rescue parachute? If the motor failed to operate, and
there was no safe place to land, the pilot could use the rescue parachute. The
risk of, say, an electric motor failing to start, AND being over a place where a
landing would harm the pilot, AND the rescue parachute failing is much smaller
than all the other safety risks of flying in a contest. In that case, a pilot with
a motor gives up some weak weather performance to gain more area to fly in,
looking for that elusive thermal. Even if the scoring ends with the motor
starting, having a motor can change how the soaring is done.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

On Monday, December 25, 2017 at 8:15:18 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 12/24/2017 6:39 PM:
If this is "soaring," then no external power or induced thrust should be allowed. Start the engine, turn a prop (or turbine, or compressed air jet, or stick an oar out the window or whatever) and you are now a powered aircraft. In competition, the flight STOPS THERE. (Just like the OLC.) No exceptions. If you elect to augment your flight to make it home when getting too low for comfort and do not want to accept a landout, too bad. The scoresheet should reflect that you decided to terminate soaring flight at that point.

On 12/25/2017 9:37 PM, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Monday, December 25, 2017 at 8:15:18 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 12/24/2017 6:39 PM:
If this is "soaring," then no external power or induced thrust should be allowed. Start the engine, turn a prop (or turbine, or compressed air jet, or stick an oar out the window or whatever) and you are now a powered aircraft. In competition, the flight STOPS THERE. (Just like the OLC.) No exceptions. If you elect to augment your flight to make it home when getting too low for comfort and do not want to accept a landout, too bad. The scoresheet should reflect that you decided to terminate soaring flight at that point.

Also remember that virtually ALL external power sources (Reciprocating engine, Turbine or Electric CAN fail. And the insidious "Emergency Algorithm" dictates that it will most probably fail at the absolutely WORST time, i.e., too low over bad terrain when you have not previously selected an appropriate landing area and planned how to get in to it safely.

An auxiliary power source is a neat thing to have. Just remember that it is NOT a "Safety" device. It is best if you just treat it as a way to avoid inconvenience. Betting on it to save your sorry butt in a competition (or on any flight) is just asking for trouble.
What about a glider with a rescue parachute? If the motor failed to operate, and
there was no safe place to land, the pilot could use the rescue parachute. The
risk of, say, an electric motor failing to start, AND being over a place where a
landing would harm the pilot, AND the rescue parachute failing is much smaller
than all the other safety risks of flying in a contest. In that case, a pilot with
a motor gives up some weak weather performance to gain more area to fly in,
looking for that elusive thermal. Even if the scoring ends with the motor
starting, having a motor can change how the soaring is done.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
What about a glider with an ejection seat. When your electric glider fails to start and you have no landing options you can eject. No parachute allowed however on the ejection seat...

A wing suit, maybe?Â* Then you could get an extra 10 feet or so of added
distance.
--
Dan, 5J

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Monday, December 25, 2017 at 11:15:18 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Even if the scoring ends with the motor
starting, having a motor can change how the soaring is done.

Behold: honesty. Rare enough to be noteworthy. Thanks, Eric.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On Tuesday, December 26, 2017 at 6:19:19 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, December 25, 2017 at 11:15:18 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Even if the scoring ends with the motor
starting, having a motor can change how the soaring is done.

Behold: honesty. Rare enough to be noteworthy. Thanks, Eric.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Yes - about as much as having a dedicated crew for the retrieve. They should be penalized equally.

On Tuesday, December 26, 2017 at 7:21:12 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, December 26, 2017 at 6:19:19 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, December 25, 2017 at 11:15:18 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Even if the scoring ends with the motor
starting, having a motor can change how the soaring is done.

Behold: honesty. Rare enough to be noteworthy. Thanks, Eric.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Yes - about as much as having a dedicated crew for the retrieve. They should be penalized equally.

On a 1750 km triangle attempt, which would YOU rather have?