Hard Deck

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 9:58:45 AM UTC-5, ND wrote:
I invite you to apply hard deck logic to this flight.

John's been really clear about this... read it again Andy. His intent isn't to mess with ridge & mountain flying in any way.

Away from the airport, away from the ridge, he's proposing a 500' stairstep with a 500 agl minimum. In the big valley at Mifflin (elevation 800-ish) that's a 1500 msl hard deck. Can you thermal safely out of the Mifflin valley from 1500msl on a nice easy day? Certainly. John's proposal is to give you an administrative landout **before** you become dangerous to yourself..

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

John's been really clear about this... read it again Andy.

John has not been really clear, John has rvised his rule as the discusion
has gone on.


I would argue that putting a hard deck rule in place has the ability to
create a safety issue rather than mitigate it.

What happens when the competitor drops below the proposed hard deck?

Must they simply land?

Do they give up trying, and then land out trying to get home, possibl
unfocussed and a bit dejected?

You would then be putting pilots in a situation where they are forced int
landing in an unknown environment and by doing so increasing the risk.

Statistics are statistics and can be manipulated to give the desire
outcome.

The issue here is field section, or lack thereof.

There are many factors that influence what is a safe height to climb away:

1) Experience
2) Hours on type
3) Terrain
4) Having a chosen / planned land out option
5) Aircraft type
6) Weather - reliable day Vs unreliable day

Competition gliding is in decline, keep adding rules which removes th
pilot judgment, the decline will be more rapid.

Just my humble opinion.

1000 + hours
Flown 15+ contests
Past contest director
150 hours in the mountains.

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 10:25:13 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 9:58:45 AM UTC-5, ND wrote:
I invite you to apply hard deck logic to this flight.

John's been really clear about this... read it again Andy. His intent isn't to mess with ridge & mountain flying in any way.

Away from the airport, away from the ridge, he's proposing a 500' stairstep with a 500 agl minimum. In the big valley at Mifflin (elevation 800-ish) that's a 1500 msl hard deck. Can you thermal safely out of the Mifflin valley from 1500msl on a nice easy day? Certainly. John's proposal is to give you an administrative landout **before** you become dangerous to yourself.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

Hi Evan,

yeah, i know what he's trying to do. it would just be interesting to see how to apply hard deck logic to that situation specifically. how would the hard deck taper to meet the ridge..? et cet.

as far as administrative landouts over the valley, or a flat land location.. let's say that you or i are down low and we've busted the hard deck just barely. Rats! toast for the day. contest blown. but seconds later we feel a bump we consider to be solid, we might still decide to turn. what i'm suggesting is that you can take someone's speed points away with the hard deck, but you can't stop them from circling. pilots might still be inclined to try and circle if they think they can avoid a retrieve and potential damage to their 'sheen. that's my argument.