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#1
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Just don’t do winch launches.
Let’s see you’re going to attach me to the ground with some homemade contraption? Who knows what the operators qualifications are. No thanks! |
#2
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"Just don’t do winch launches"
What a short-sighted view. The economics of gliding are already keeping new members from joining the sport - and will just get worse in the future. Winch launching is a cost-effective launch method which can effectively launch gliders at a 1/10 of the cost of aerotowing. This is a major factor especially during the training phase where launches and landing are the critical skills for new pilots to learn. With proper training, winch launching should be no more dangerous than aerotowing. |
#3
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To each his own. You’ll never see me on a winch tow.
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#4
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I used to think that, overcoming my fear made me a much better pilot, took about 6 training flights, plus a couple of simulated cable breaks.i learnt to fly much better highly modified circuits too.
Only time I would be reluctant to winch is in calm conditions with full water. |
#5
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On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 03:59:27 -0800, davidlawley wrote:
I used to think that, overcoming my fear made me a much better pilot, took about 6 training flights, plus a couple of simulated cable breaks.i learnt to fly much better highly modified circuits too. Only time I would be reluctant to winch is in calm conditions with full water. To put numbers on winch training, I soloed on my 79th launch, taking most of one summer season, flying only on weekends and a bit under 17 hours air time, flying a mix of ASK-21, G103 and Puchacz. I think the higher number of launches to solo compared with aerotows is a positive benefit, simply because students have flown a larger number of landings by the time they solo. The rule of thumb we use for ab initio winch training is that the number of flights to solo is your age in years plus 30: I was in my early 50s at the time. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#6
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On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 8:33:47 AM UTC-5, Kiwi User wrote:
The rule of thumb we use for ab initio winch training is that the number of flights to solo is your age in years plus 30: I was in my early 50s at the time. Aerotow experience is a factor. My anecdotal data point. Age 62, 250 prior aerotows, I soloed on winch after 28 launches spread over six weeks. I'm not a 'natural pilot'. This was a very relaxed pace. I was in no hurry to solo, and there was excess CFI and glider capacity, and so it was an absolutely no pressure situation. WRT safety. Concerns about winch mechanical quality, instructor expertise, and winch driver expertise are legit and need to be carefully evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Same deal with the aerotow operations that we normalize. Winch launching has made me safer on aerotows and overall increased my life expectancy: 1)In case of an aerotow rope break, the trained reflex to push the nose down to recover airspeed before turning carries over from winch to aerotow. I think winch training makes me less likely to spin during the 360 turn off an aerotow rope break. Doing 5-10 'simulated rope breaks' on the winch over a few weeks trains that reflex much better than doing the one 'actual rope break' typical of aerotowing training. Karl S.'s 'zoomie' training exercise (see his description above) might be worthwhile for aerotow training. I'm much more confident about aerotow rope breaks after completing winch training. 2)Winch training is largely about landing from a variety of altitudes, positions and attitudes. It is a great cost effective opportunity to 'tune up' your landing (and outlandings if you winch train at Eagle Field). 3)Winching is FUN. It is part of my recurrent training plan even though I have to travel away from my home area to do it. |
#7
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On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 6:30:22 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
... training makes me less likely to spin during the 360 turn off an aerotow rope break. Why are you going to do a 360??? |
#8
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On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 12:16:31 AM UTC-5, Charles Longley wrote:
To each his own. You’ll never see me on a winch tow. Never mind the money, winch launching is fun. |
#9
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Quoted text
"Let’s see you’re going to attach me to the ground with some homemade contraption? Who knows what the operators qualifications are. No thanks!" PROBABLY A WISE CHOICE FOR SOMEONE WHO IS INTIMIDATED BY GROUND LAUNCHING. BTW. THERE ARE MANY, MANY MORE, SAFE WINCH THAN AEROTOWS DAILY AND YEARLY WORLD WIDE BASIS. SOME GLIDERPORTS DOING HUNDREDS PER DAY AND NOTMTO MENTION THE RESULTING MORE COMPETENT AND EXPERIENCED PILOTS, ESPECIALLY AT LOW ALTITUDES AND VARIETY OF CIRCUITS. |
#10
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On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:07:05 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Quoted text "Let’s see you’re going to attach me to the ground with some homemade contraption? Who knows what the operators qualifications are. No thanks!" PROBABLY A WISE CHOICE FOR SOMEONE WHO IS INTIMIDATED BY GROUND LAUNCHING.. BTW. THERE ARE MANY, MANY MORE, SAFE WINCH THAN AEROTOWS DAILY AND YEARLY WORLD WIDE BASIS. SOME GLIDERPORTS DOING HUNDREDS PER DAY AND NOTMTO MENTION THE RESULTING MORE COMPETENT AND EXPERIENCED PILOTS, ESPECIALLY AT LOW ALTITUDES AND VARIETY OF CIRCUITS. Wow I guess it helps to make your point to go to all CAPS. With 40 years and 20,000+ hours I am not intimidated by much in aviation. Certainly not winch launching. I do choose to manage my risk however. I’ve seen some of the lash ups used for winch launches and I know how it goes at a gliderport. Everyone’s eager to go who knows what the ability of the winch operator is. At least with a tow plane there’s some basic certification on the equipment and operator. |
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