$75,000 2-33

On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 7:03:30 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 6:16:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I could mow lawns during the week and be able to fly a 2-22 multiple times on the weekend on what I made pushing that lawn mower. There isn't a single glass based club running today that can make that happen.

You're right that times have changed. Kids don't fly on their grass cutting wages anymore, but here are some soaring clubs in the USA that have youth flying in glass trainers. Some of these programs combine 'line crew service' with flight lessons. In some cases these young pilots cut grass.

http://sugarbushsoaring.com/2017-fefy-day
http://sugarbushsoaring.com/doc/FEFY-Brochure.pdf

http://harrishillsoaring.org/junior-program-details/

https://www.soartruckee.org/youth-soaring.html

http://www.tidewatersoaring.org/scholarships.html
Harris Hill
Maybe wrong but I thought Sugarbush has a K&L 2-33 rebuild and a K&L rebuild 1-26. I know there are some pro Schweitzer folks up there. Your other examples of youth soaring programs are also heavy with Elmira iron.
'HHSC owns and operates 3 SGS2-33’s, numbers 1, 2, and 3. We rely on them as our primary training aircraft for new students and transitioning power pilots.'
Truckee's fleet:
Ride Glider 1 - Schweitzer SGS 2-32

Ride Glider 2 - Schweitzer SGS 2-32

Training/Rider Glider 1 - Schweitzer SGS 2-33

Training/Ride Glider 2 - Schweitzer SGS 2-33
TSS currently owns:
Schweizer 2-33A training glider
Blanik L-23 dual-place sailplane
PZL Swidnik PW-6 dual-place sailplane
Schweizer 1-26D single-place glider
PZL Bielsko PW-5 single-place sailplane.

I taught one student in a 2-33 because it was my bright idea to buy it to supplement our G1103 Acro. I hated the back seat, but it did teach me to slip to land. So far that skill set has saved me from my prior bad decisions in the pattern, twice. It may be a flying barn door, but it has a few things to teach. Not enough to bring 75K though.

SF

I concur with Tom that a mix of re-manufactured SGS gliders and glass ships is ideal.

Where that is not possible, good condition SGS seems to work.

But POS SGS are accidents waiting to happen and they make a bad impression in the meantime.

On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 7:51:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:

I thought Sugarbush has a K&L 2-33 rebuild and a K&L rebuild 1-26.

There is only one 2-33, so students also fly PW-6 (two) and ASK-21 (one). They progress to the Grob G102 after PPL. All tourist rides happen in PW-6 or ASK-21. The K&L rebuilds are beautiful, students love them, and they get really excited when they step up to the pristine 1-26.

'HHSC owns and operates 3 SGS 2-33’s, numbers 1, 2, and 3. We rely on them as our primary training aircraft for new students and transitioning power pilots.'

HHSC also has a club ASK-21. I flew a field check in it.


Truckee's fleet:
Ride Glider 1 - Schweitzer SGS 2-32
Ride Glider 2 - Schweitzer SGS 2-32
Training/Rider Glider 1 - Schweitzer SGS 2-33
Training/Ride Glider 2 - Schweitzer SGS 2-33

Right you are. I thought I saw a ASK-21 on their website.

TSS currently owns:
Schweizer 2-33A training glider
Blanik L-23 dual-place sailplane
PZL Swidnik PW-6 dual-place sailplane
Schweizer 1-26D single-place glider
PZL Bielsko PW-5 single-place sailplane.

I stand corrected on the glass 2 place, but the L-23 is an obvious step up from the 2-33.

I agree: higher-performance training gliders are much better. I still recall when our first one arrived: in addition to the big performance boost, long wings; plush interior nicely finished off; effective dive brakes; and a real door and window for the rear cockpit.

Yes, our first 2-33 was a HUGE step up from the crude 2-22s I trained and soloed in back in the mid 60s.

I've spent the past few months in UH's shop helping refinish my ASW 24. It's beautiful again, but it was a LOT of work. I shared quarters part of the time with a Valley Soaring Club group rejuvenating one of their 2-33s. Neither project is easy, but the far lower hours and relatively modest skills required to make the 2-33 look brand new despite it being tied out during the soaring season are another reason to keep these ships in the mix.

Chip Bearden

.....the far lower hours and relatively modest skills required to make the 2-33 look brand new despite it being tied out during the soaring season are another reason to keep these ships in the mix.

Chip Bearden

I soloed and earned my Private and Commercial Pilot ratings in 2-33s, so I have lots of good feelings for old Tubby the Trainer. Nobody in this thread seems ready to admit it, but the thing is fun to fly. Stress free as long as you stay close to home, climbs well in thermals, front seat is comfy, and visibility is excellent.

And then there's the back seat. When I got our club's permission to carry a passenger, I moved to the rear perch to allow the visitor to have a better view. One of my first riders was a young woman with long, flowing hair. Shortly after takeoff, the wind from the air vent on the panel spread her lovely locks all over the cockpit, cutting off my view of, among other things, the tow plane. I passed her my hat and she tucked her hair in it; problem solved and lesson learned. But what my old friend Don Turner observed about flying the 2-33 from the back seat is true wisdom. "Although it is very uncomfortable," he said, "you can't see anything."

So what's the story here? You are richest country in the world and insist on flying crappiest, oldest, cheapest training gliders known to earth. Please shine some light for us, training in poor countries with modern german gliders.

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 10:22:12 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote:
So what's the story here? You are richest country in the world and insist on flying crappiest, oldest, cheapest training gliders known to earth. Please shine some light for us, training in poor countries with modern german gliders.

Send me a link to your club website? I'd like to see what you have for equipment, membership, cost structure.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

maanantai 12. maaliskuuta 2018 16.44.02 UTC+2 Tango Eight kirjoitti:
On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 10:22:12 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote:
So what's the story here? You are richest country in the world and insist on flying crappiest, oldest, cheapest training gliders known to earth. Please shine some light for us, training in poor countries with modern german gliders.

Send me a link to your club website? I'd like to see what you have for equipment, membership, cost structure.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

ASK21, Duo, Junior, LS1-f, 2*LS8, D2b, V2c. Appr. 1500 USD per year and you can fly everything as much as you can, or hourly rate of up to 30 USD/hr plus 300 USD fixed per year.

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 10:22:12 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote:
So what's the story here? You are richest country in the world and insist on flying crappiest, oldest, cheapest training gliders known to earth. Please shine some light for us, training in poor countries with modern german gliders.

The USA may be the "richest country" in aggregate, but the vast majority of young people are far poorer than in Northern Europe, due to low paying jobs (if any) and student debt. A bit off topic, but perhaps not, as this may have something to do with the decline of soaring here, regardless of the available training gliders.

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 2:10:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:

The USA may be the "richest country" in aggregate, but the vast majority of young people are far poorer than in Northern Europe, due to low paying jobs (if any) and student debt.


In some clubs with modern training fleets, older people pay higher fees compared to the younger people in the same club. Clubs that fly fully depreciated trainers charge much lower fees.

Here are the 2017 fees at Sugarbush
http://sugarbushsoaring.com/doc/rate-sheet-2017.pdf

On top of the fees, there are gifts of cash, professional services and the usual volunteers. Some members that only fly occasionally (or not at all), still pay their dues. A number of people make tax-deductible contributions to FEFY which funds youth programs like Line Crew, scholarships for Youth Camp, and training scholarships for CPL-glider.

Bottom line: A lot of people put in more than they take out. (This is also true of youth members.)