First glider to buy 10-20k euro's

Take the one in the best condition and with a decent trailer.

Keeping this aside, I'd recommend an LS1-f. Others for sure will have their own opinion :-)

Reasons: It flies nicely, has a very good feel of the thermals, climbs well and is very responsive. Glide performance is a tiny bit better than the Std. Cirrus. Unless heavily repaired or modified with a tail weight, they have a minimum loading of 60kg. Easy to rig, wings are light (60-65kg). They are sensitive to bugs, though. And you might need a service contract. I had one for 7 years, my girlfriend also just bought one and is very happy with it.

Libelles climb well and provide a great view outside but controls are not that effective and nicely balanced as with the F. I personally did not like it that much.

ASW19 has nice and responsive handling, a roomy and sturdy cockpit, but not the same feel of the thermals as the F. It is not very sensitive to bugs and has good performance at high speeds. The wings are quite heavy (~70kg), but they are well built. Would be my second choice.

Standard Cirrus flies nicely but not as stable as the F. Has good feel of the thermals. It needs some more practice and you need to keep your hand at the stick most of the time (all-flying tail).

Op donderdag 15 maart 2018 19:53:00 UTC+1 schreef :
Take the one in the best condition and with a decent trailer.

Keeping this aside, I'd recommend an LS1-f. Others for sure will have their own opinion :-)

Reasons: It flies nicely, has a very good feel of the thermals, climbs well and is very responsive. Glide performance is a tiny bit better than the Std. Cirrus. Unless heavily repaired or modified with a tail weight, they have a minimum loading of 60kg. Easy to rig, wings are light (60-65kg). They are sensitive to bugs, though. And you might need a service contract. I had one for 7 years, my girlfriend also just bought one and is very happy with it.

Libelles climb well and provide a great view outside but controls are not that effective and nicely balanced as with the F. I personally did not like it that much.

ASW19 has nice and responsive handling, a roomy and sturdy cockpit, but not the same feel of the thermals as the F. It is not very sensitive to bugs and has good performance at high speeds. The wings are quite heavy (~70kg), but they are well built. Would be my second choice.

Standard Cirrus flies nicely but not as stable as the F. Has good feel of the thermals. It needs some more practice and you need to keep your hand at the stick most of the time (all-flying tail).

The LS1-f looks very appealing, since you've had an LS1-f, what would you recommend to look out for when buying one? Nobody I know ever owned/owns an F, and I can't find much information on what to look out for. I know about the Service Contract with DG though.

Hi Senna,

not sure how good your German is, but I wrote a test about the LS1-f: https://www.segelflug.de/tests/LS1/index.html. Google translate might help, too.

If you have the chance, fly an LS4. The LS1-f is very similar - it has a bit higher control forces and an even better feel of the thermals.

As any glider of its vintage, an LS1-f has its flaws. Besides the usual items (gelcoat, cracks, paperwork). You should check the following items in particular:
- transition between vertical tail and fuselage boom: the bulkheads are a bit weak and tend to break or get loose. This is a quite common problem with the F. Check for cracks in the gelcoat. When rigged, twist the fuselage boom by slightly pushing the top of the vertical tail to the side. If it has a "soft" feel, there might be an issue. Preferrably take an LS1-f that has been repaired in this area. Unfortunately, the repair requires quite some work to do.
- if it sits low on the ground, the springs of the gear are worn and need to be replaced. This is an unexpensive fix (~120€ for the parts + 1 day of work)
- some F have the undercarriage modified to LS4 standard, containing a gas spring in the pushrod. This may wear, causing the gear to collapse. If you can, take someone who knows LS4 from your club. She or he should take a closer look at the whole gear assembly.
- as with many other gliders, the lift pins tend to wear over the years. During 3000h livetime extension, they often have to be replaced. Repair needs to be done in a professional workshop.
- check the play of the lift pins and how many washers are used to reduce it. It is okay to use up to 0.5mm of washers in total on all lift pins.
- check the canopy lifting mechanism for excessive play. Repairs may need some welding.
- levers of the main wing pins should be fastened. They are kept in place through rivets or screws which may loosen over time. It's an easy thing to repair.
- the forward attachment point of the horizontal stabilizer is done with a rod end. This has to be glued in place
- check how old the l'Hotellier connectors are. In EASA-land, they have to be replaced after max. 3000h (which actually is not a bad thing to do). A complete set of connectors is about 1600€

Best regards,
Christoph