Night bombers interception in Western Europe in 1944

bendel boy wrote:


Going from memory, Galland said the reverse - that the P-38 was seen
as easy meat, and that it reinforced the lessons of the Bf 110.

Even with drop tanks it didn't have the eventual range of the P-51,
and, as found in the Pacific war area, it didn't have the agility to
dogfight - it had to rely on 'dive & climb' tactics. Against the Bf
109 that may not have been as profitable.


The P-38 was the first long range fighter the US produced, and had
comparable or longer range than the P-51 throughout the entire war.
As a quick exercise, look up the first Allied fighter escort mission
to appear over Berlin... Also look up the airfield locations, and
you'll note that a -38 had to fly quite a bit farther to fly
a round trip to Berlin than a -51 did.

As far as "dogfighting," no allied aircraft had the agility to
"dogfight" (in this case, engage in a fight in which turning ability
is a primary factor in performance) consistently with early war
Japanese aircraft, nor did they need to. As early as December of
1941, AVG P-40s in China successfully employed climb and dive
tactics, in an aircraft which markedly inferior to the P-38 in
that regard. The first British Spitfires to attempt to engage
in a WWI-style turning fight with the Japanese discovered that
their aircraft didn't come out well in such a contest, and also
adopted tactics which suited their aircraft better. Note that
the aircraft with the better performance (climb and speed) can
dictate the type of fight- the slower climbing "dogfighter"
gets to be on the receiving end of high speed diving passes...

Mike Williamson

Mike Williamson wrote:

bendel boy wrote:


Going from memory, Galland said the reverse - that the P-38 was seen
as easy meat, and that it reinforced the lessons of the Bf 110.

Even with drop tanks it didn't have the eventual range of the P-51,
and, as found in the Pacific war area, it didn't have the agility to
dogfight - it had to rely on 'dive & climb' tactics. Against the Bf
109 that may not have been as profitable.

The P-38 was the first long range fighter the US produced, and had
comparable or longer range than the P-51 throughout the entire war.

Slightly less, I'll buy. Comparable or longer, no.

As a quick exercise, look up the first Allied fighter escort mission
to appear over Berlin...

Uh huh, and these were J models with 410 gal. internal. (205 per engine),
vs. the P-51B/D's (with aft tank) 289 gallons and lower drag.

Also look up the airfield locations, and
you'll note that a -38 had to fly quite a bit farther to fly
a round trip to Berlin than a -51 did.

snip

Depends on the unit. The 55th and 20th at Nuthampstead and King's Cliffe
were well west, but then so was the 4th at Debden and the 78th at Duxford,
whether flying P-47s or P-51s. The 479th was at Wattisham, forward of the
4th and 78th, as were the 364th at Honington and the 55th after it moved
to Wormingford. The 56th was just about the most forward fighter unit
when they were at Halesworth, but moved south and a bit west to Boxted in
1944.

Guy