Why no "situational awareness" (collision avoidance) apps for cell phones?

On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 8:50:59 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
The ADS-B in my C-180 provides collision warning.Â* Shortly after the
installation I was flying a GPS arc to an ILS (practice approach) when I
got an aural warning:Â* "Traffic 3 o'clock high, 1 mile!"Â* I had been
monitoring the traffic on my tablet, ATC had been reporting each of us
to the other, and I knew I was below the traffic.Â* Since we were both
VFR, no vectors were issued.

My system is a Garmin 430 WAAS GPS and GTX-345 ADS-B In/Out
transponder.Â* Not really suitable for a glider, but great for a light plane.

Can anyone say if a Trig TT22 with TN70 will provide collision warnings?


The TT22 and TN70 gives you ADS-B Out only, unlike your GTX-345 that does ADS-B Out/In (1090ES Out and 1090ES In and UAT In). Glider pilots would normally get ADS-B In via a PowerFLARM (1090ES In only) or if they have room for a separate display then in some cases a Stratus or Stratux receiver (and if you do that get a dual link receiver).

On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 1:06:17 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 8:50:59 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
The ADS-B in my C-180 provides collision warning.Â* Shortly after the
installation I was flying a GPS arc to an ILS (practice approach) when I
got an aural warning:Â* "Traffic 3 o'clock high, 1 mile!"Â* I had been
monitoring the traffic on my tablet, ATC had been reporting each of us
to the other, and I knew I was below the traffic.Â* Since we were both
VFR, no vectors were issued.

My system is a Garmin 430 WAAS GPS and GTX-345 ADS-B In/Out
transponder.Â* Not really suitable for a glider, but great for a light plane.

Can anyone say if a Trig TT22 with TN70 will provide collision warnings?


The TT22 and TN70 gives you ADS-B Out only, unlike your GTX-345 that does ADS-B Out/In (1090ES Out and 1090ES In and UAT In). Glider pilots would normally get ADS-B In via a PowerFLARM (1090ES In only) or if they have room for a separate display then in some cases a Stratus or Stratux receiver (and if you do that get a dual link receiver).

Powerflarm is not a good ADS-B IN solution. It does not see UAT equipped aircraft, nor does it support ADS-R or TIS-B, which makes UAT and conventional transponder equipped aircraft visible to ADS-B IN equipped AC (as long as those aircraft are also ADS-B OUT equipped).

An ADS-B receiver (SCOUT, Stratus, etc.) coupled with an application like Foreflight or FltPlan Go on a smartphone or tablet provides an economical ADS-B collision warning system for those pilots who have an ADS-B out equipped glider.

PowerFLARM has limitations, but is still likely the most useable/useful ADS-B In solution for most USA glider pilots. Especially those that actually fly with their glider near other gliders. But yes folks need to be aware of the limitations.

On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 6:13:31 PM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:
Powerflarm is not a good ADS-B IN solution. It does not see UAT equipped aircraft, nor does it support ADS-R or TIS-B, which makes UAT and conventional transponder equipped aircraft visible to ADS-B IN equipped AC (as long as those aircraft are also ADS-B OUT equipped).

An ADS-B receiver (SCOUT, Stratus, etc.) coupled with an application like Foreflight or FltPlan Go on a smartphone or tablet provides an economical ADS-B collision warning system for those pilots who have an ADS-B out equipped glider.

As usual, Mike, you are factually wrong.

PowerFLARM most definitely shows ADS-B (Mode S, the most common). It also shows Mode C and Mode S transponders in PCAS mode; and since UAT ADS-B has to be associated with a Mode C or S transponder, it will show them.

Now, again, tell me what ADS-B IN/OUT setup you have in a pure glider - that interfaces with standard glider displays.

Crickets....

Please stop spreading your "fake news" about PowerFLARM. We get it that you don't like it. Get over it. Enjoy your ADS-B whatever and I'll enjoy my PF.

Just stay away from my thermal!

Kirk
66

Just stay away from my thermal!

Kirk
66

You stay away from his thermal. Least equipped glider has the right of way. Haha.

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:21:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Just stay away from my thermal!

Kirk
66

You stay away from his thermal. Least equipped glider has the right of way. Haha.

Least skilled pilot lands first. And you are definitely in the hunt for the least mentally skilled pilot around.

Kirk
66

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 11:14:49 AM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 6:13:31 PM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:
Powerflarm is not a good ADS-B IN solution. It does not see UAT equipped aircraft, nor does it support ADS-R or TIS-B, which makes UAT and conventional transponder equipped aircraft visible to ADS-B IN equipped AC (as long as those aircraft are also ADS-B OUT equipped).

An ADS-B receiver (SCOUT, Stratus, etc.) coupled with an application like Foreflight or FltPlan Go on a smartphone or tablet provides an economical ADS-B collision warning system for those pilots who have an ADS-B out equipped glider.

As usual, Mike, you are factually wrong.

PowerFLARM most definitely shows ADS-B (Mode S, the most common). It also shows Mode C and Mode S transponders in PCAS mode; and since UAT ADS-B has to be associated with a Mode C or S transponder, it will show them.

Now, again, tell me what ADS-B IN/OUT setup you have in a pure glider - that interfaces with standard glider displays.

Crickets....

Please stop spreading your "fake news" about PowerFLARM. We get it that you don't like it. Get over it. Enjoy your ADS-B whatever and I'll enjoy my PF.

Just stay away from my thermal!

Kirk
66

How about you actually reading my posts???? I didn't say that PowerFlarm doesn't show ADS-B traffic. I said that it doesn't show UAT ADS-B traffic. Nor did I say that it did't show transponder traffic. I said it didn't show TIS-B traffic.

Supporting TIS-B improves the situational awareness in regard to transponder equipped aircraft orders of magnitude better than the PowerFlarm PCAS type transponder detection. PowerFlarm can't give you any hints on where a transponder equipped aircraft is (behind you, in front, to the left????). The range is a very crude approximation based on signal strength. The only thing it can tell you pretty accurately is the altitude of the transponder aircraft.

An ADS-B receiver that supports TIS-B will show you exactly where a transponder equipped aircraft is, to the same resolution as is visible on ATC radar. This of course assumes that you are within range of an ADS-B ground station and that your aircraft is ADS-B OUT equipped.

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 9:43:59 PM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:

How about you actually reading my posts???? I didn't say that PowerFlarm doesn't show ADS-B traffic. I said that it doesn't show UAT ADS-B traffic.. Nor did I say that it did't show transponder traffic. I said it didn't show TIS-B traffic.

Supporting TIS-B improves the situational awareness in regard to transponder equipped aircraft orders of magnitude better than the PowerFlarm PCAS type transponder detection. PowerFlarm can't give you any hints on where a transponder equipped aircraft is (behind you, in front, to the left????). The range is a very crude approximation based on signal strength. The only thing it can tell you pretty accurately is the altitude of the transponder aircraft.

An ADS-B receiver that supports TIS-B will show you exactly where a transponder equipped aircraft is, to the same resolution as is visible on ATC radar. This of course assumes that you are within range of an ADS-B ground station and that your aircraft is ADS-B OUT equipped.

Mike, unlike you, I can read and comprehend. Your posts about Flarm are factually incorrect. You don't like Flarm, OK, don't use it. But right NOW, ADS-B is pretty much a non-player in the glider market. Again, tell me what YOU use in your pure glider?

Yesterday my PF was happily showing me airliners, commuters, and VFR traffic (via Mode C PCAS). No UAT? So effing what - UAT has to have Mode C or Mode S - and I see that. And what is the fleet implementation of UAT - or Mode-S ADS-B out - in the aircraft ACTUALLY FLYING RIGHT NOW? 20%, max?.

Hey, if your ADS-B in/out gives you warm fuzzies, great! Me, my PF gives me what I need, right now. In a few years, there may be a suitable ADS-B Out solution that I will get. Who knows. But the trash you are putting out helps NO-ONE.

Kirk
66

On Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 9:49:32 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 9:43:59 PM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:

How about you actually reading my posts???? I didn't say that PowerFlarm doesn't show ADS-B traffic. I said that it doesn't show UAT ADS-B traffic. Nor did I say that it did't show transponder traffic. I said it didn't show TIS-B traffic.

Supporting TIS-B improves the situational awareness in regard to transponder equipped aircraft orders of magnitude better than the PowerFlarm PCAS type transponder detection. PowerFlarm can't give you any hints on where a transponder equipped aircraft is (behind you, in front, to the left????). The range is a very crude approximation based on signal strength. The only thing it can tell you pretty accurately is the altitude of the transponder aircraft.

An ADS-B receiver that supports TIS-B will show you exactly where a transponder equipped aircraft is, to the same resolution as is visible on ATC radar. This of course assumes that you are within range of an ADS-B ground station and that your aircraft is ADS-B OUT equipped.

Mike, unlike you, I can read and comprehend. Your posts about Flarm are factually incorrect. You don't like Flarm, OK, don't use it. But right NOW, ADS-B is pretty much a non-player in the glider market. Again, tell me what YOU use in your pure glider?

Yesterday my PF was happily showing me airliners, commuters, and VFR traffic (via Mode C PCAS). No UAT? So effing what - UAT has to have Mode C or Mode S - and I see that. And what is the fleet implementation of UAT - or Mode-S ADS-B out - in the aircraft ACTUALLY FLYING RIGHT NOW? 20%, max?.

Hey, if your ADS-B in/out gives you warm fuzzies, great! Me, my PF gives me what I need, right now. In a few years, there may be a suitable ADS-B Out solution that I will get. Who knows. But the trash you are putting out helps NO-ONE.

Kirk
66

Please share with me exactly what I am saying about PowerFlarm that is factually incorrect?

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 1:08:58 AM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:
Please share with me exactly what I am saying about PowerFlarm that is factually incorrect?

Your posts continually claim that PF does not see UAT or TIS-B aircraft. Since you HAVE to have a Mode C transponder to put out UAT ADS-B OUT and TIS-B, the PF will detect the presence of that aircraft - AND Mode S ADS-B out, AND plain Mode S transponders, AND other PF gliders.

Back at you - what setup do you have in a glider that gives the equivalent situational awareness as PowerFlarm? Does it display on commong glider displays? How much does it cost?

Kirk
66