Soaring not compatible with modern society?

No good place to post, no slight on you......

What did you learn, what do you practice?

I am tired of the, "land wherever, ground crew drags the ship to next launch" attitude.

Long time pilot.
Ex CFI-G.
Many off airport landings. Worst was a gear door in a contest that was fixed for next dat

Soaring is very expensive: specially the initial investment. I’m in my mid 20’s; it cost me $4,500 for a private pilot certificate, and I was lucky to buy a standard cirrus In great shape for less than $12,000; plus 900$ insurance and around 3000$ in tows a year. I could have paid my car loan, or put a down payment for a house... I been hanglidng for a couple years, so i jumped into sailplanes with both feet since I was already addicted to soaring, but the average young individual that takes a demo flight might not be able to waste his money on soaring.

My 14 y.o. asked to fly gliders. Club fees were $400 and tows $50 each. His 14 flights cost $1100. This season his dues were $200 with tows still costing $50. He has access to club ships (1-23, l-23, 2-33) and has been offered use of a few private ships. This season he will spend about $1,000 to fly.

When he played soccer the club fees were $1500 per srason plus the cost of travel, lodging for tournaments, fuel, food, etc. soccer cost almost $5k each year. He played for 6 years.

As Kirk said, soaring is not expensive in terms of cash. The expense is time. As others have mentioned hanging out at an airfield in hot temps, bugs, snakes, and other critters isn't family friendly or even just hang out friendly. Add in risk aversion and from the outside soaring doesn't look like much fun. Flying isn't difficult but it does require dedication and consistency to learn. The lack of instant gratification doesn't help.

I don't believe expense is a barrier to entry. Do some research and compare the entry costs and participation cost to other leisure time activities. Something's besides money are keeping people away from having a go. Those who choose to spend money on any activity make a conscious decision to do so. Regardless of the cash outlay there needs to be perceived value in the expedature. To many, soaring might be low value even if it were free and thus not a valuable expenditure of time.

As society becomes more risk adverse anything viewed as risky becomes less attractive which is part of Gregg's original post.

I believe prime opinion of this thread is misdirected.

If you think risk avoidance is "The Barrier" - then you do not watch much TV - Old fashion style sports have been replaced by X Game type sports - kids throw themselves off mountains and ramps on pretty much anything with wheels or is slippery. Watch today's winter Olympics and tell me how kids are becoming less risk takers.

If your looking for the reason our sport is contracting and not attracting a younger audience - it is that we are loosing the competition for younger interest - IT IS A COMPETITION as it has always been - we are very poor at marketing and making our sport attractive. So we attract only those who were already pre-sold early in life or by a pilot they have a relationship with.

It is a sport that requires years to get good - when you begin it you get beaten by a bunch of old guys - the venues are all pretty spartan - there are tons of rules - and not allot of other kids to play with.

To blame Society is a pretty easy way out and once you blame the universe you don't have to look for a solution - you can just sit and whine about how the world is so much worse today and getting worse every day.

As some smart guy once said - if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

my $.02
WH

Should the Penn State Outing Club blame themselves? I'm not saying soaring couldn't do things better. But in the original post I meant societal attitudes towards risk, not individuals tolerance to the slow club training environment.

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:56:12 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I believe prime opinion of this thread is misdirected.

If you think risk avoidance is "The Barrier" - then you do not watch much TV - Old fashion style sports have been replaced by X Game type sports - kids throw themselves off mountains and ramps on pretty much anything with wheels or is slippery. Watch today's winter Olympics and tell me how kids are becoming less risk takers.

If your looking for the reason our sport is contracting and not attracting a younger audience - it is that we are loosing the competition for younger interest - IT IS A COMPETITION as it has always been - we are very poor at marketing and making our sport attractive. So we attract only those who were already pre-sold early in life or by a pilot they have a relationship with.

It is a sport that requires years to get good - when you begin it you get beaten by a bunch of old guys - the venues are all pretty spartan - there are tons of rules - and not allot of other kids to play with.

To blame Society is a pretty easy way out and once you blame the universe you don't have to look for a solution - you can just sit and whine about how the world is so much worse today and getting worse every day.

As some smart guy once said - if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

my $.02
WH

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:56:12 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I believe prime opinion of this thread is misdirected.

If you think risk avoidance is "The Barrier" - then you do not watch much TV - Old fashion style sports have been replaced by X Game type sports - kids throw themselves off mountains and ramps on pretty much anything with wheels or is slippery. Watch today's winter Olympics and tell me how kids are becoming less risk takers.

- seems to me that the vast majority of people these days - even youngsters - like WATCHING (via electronic screens) other people engage in those extreme sports. But they don't PARTICIPATE in anything like that themselves, due to risk aversion (their own, or their parents or spouses), and lack of time (but there's somehow time to spend hours online every day).

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 12:58:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:56:12 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I believe prime opinion of this thread is misdirected.

If you think risk avoidance is "The Barrier" - then you do not watch much TV - Old fashion style sports have been replaced by X Game type sports - kids throw themselves off mountains and ramps on pretty much anything with wheels or is slippery. Watch today's winter Olympics and tell me how kids are becoming less risk takers.

- seems to me that the vast majority of people these days - even youngsters - like WATCHING (via electronic screens) other people engage in those extreme sports. But they don't PARTICIPATE in anything like that themselves, due to risk aversion (their own, or their parents or spouses), and lack of time (but there's somehow time to spend hours online every day).

This is due to a very high reward to commitment ratio. Modest to small reward for almost no commitment.
UH

What's surprising to me is not that soaring is declining, but that there are still relatively so many of us involved.

When I was 14, my father was already driving an hour each way to/from Richmond, IN every Saturday anyway to fly (Sundays were for church). The 2nd Saturday each month was his instructor duty day so that's when I went with him.. I had transportation, cheap flights (no rental or instruction fee, $2.50/2000' tow), cheap club dues, a share in a 1-26 waiting for solo, an enormous amount of support from my aviation/soaring-addicted father, and the heady-to-a-teenage-boy thrill of piloting an aircraft.

Flying gliders was a no-brainer!

Today I have my own glider, few family commitments, enough cash to fly whenever I want, a shorter drive to Blairstown, NJ, and several guys who have provided tremendous support over the years (thanks, P3 and UH). And STILL there are days when it's just too much work to go flying: because the weather might not be good, or I need to be back that night for a social commitment, or I flew in really late the night before from a business trip, or it's hot and humid and I don't relish rigging my ASW 24, or my car/house are about to fail because of deferred maintenance, or whatever.

Soaring's upsides are almost limitless. But they can be elusive--and accompanied by a lot of frustration. Add to it that soaring--while safe--is doubtless the riskiest thing most of us do and I understand why it isn't more popular.

Yes, it's expensive. But so are a lot of other things that promise quicker, less uncertain rewards; are more family friendly; are less weather-dependent; are more schedulable in advance and/or require less time commitment; and are just less work to pursue.

Chip Bearden

I think the critical word in the subject line starting this thread is "Modern"

I can say for sure that a majority of youth sports and activities are having difficulty in these "Modern" times.

The competition for kids attention is beyond anything that has ever happened in history - especially in this Modern internet/global new world.

Adults had a similar issues when kids stopped helping on the farm to play games - adults were not happy.... then they started watching TV... then kids became focused on protesting and drugs... then ...

I do not think the debate is about adolescence attention span or not taking risks - good marketing may help but I think the focus has to be how to best hold the kids we have already attracted. I think it is our attrition rate that needs some ideas/energy/thought.

As everyone in business knows - getting a new customer is extremely hard, loosing a customer is really easy - holding a existing customer is what makes for success.

The new wave of young pilots I saw last year at Elmira & still going this year..... now that's a seed that need to get watered and cared for - and that is not easy or simple.

WH

You guys are missing one of several elephants in the cockpit...

Most Americans think that small power planes are 'extremely dangerous', and whenever it slips out that I fly gliders, casual acquaintances think that I'm 'totally nuts'. The people that already know me well before they find out about my piloting are usually surprised because... 'But, you seem so normal!'