Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 8:07:39 AM UTC-4, Tom wrote:
Once again the portion of RAS that makes me want to throw my phone or throw up my hands in disgust or just plain throw up rears up again. Terms being thrown around that are base at best, second guessing from the armchair and a blatant disrespect for the victim, family, friends, witnesses and others that have to deal with this.

It's not everyone for sure but the inflated egos, the insensitivity, the need to be right at all costs and the lack of humility from a few folks is pretty damn sad.

Gary - I'm so sorry. All one should say publicly right now is we are all so sorry.

For those on their soapboxes with no apparent social skills or filter - please think before you type. Practice empathy. I've read if one doesn't have empathy pretending actually works well and leads in some cases actual empathy.

There but for the grace of god goes I - I could screw up at anytime, anywhere, anyhow.

Regards Tom

Well said Tom. I think it is unfortunate that someone's statement of mourning ("Lost one of my best friends today.") is met publicly with anything but empathy.

Well said Tom. I think it is unfortunate that someone's statement of mourning ("Lost one of my best friends today.") is met publicly with anything but empathy.

Gary: Love you guy! Haven't responded sooner with my condolences as I have been through this too many times in my soaring life. When I retired, I set down and compiled a list of all my friends who were no longer with us. After 38 years in the sport there were 15. I was CD when on three occasions pilots didn't return at the end of the day. My heart is broken over the loss we all feel and sympathy we feel for you. I did too many stupid things to remember over the years and but for the grace of God there go I.

Gary Kemp "NK"

I hesitate to jump into the fray because I know none of the people involved.. But...I didn't think Steve's initial email was especially incendiary. I would have said "I wonder if" instead of "I'm guessing" and changed a few other words to soften what is just a theory. But the theory could have validity: most times I've ever circled that low came after an extended period of circling at 800' to 1200' or so. Sometimes we get used to something that would ordinarily alarm us just because, well, we get used to it. Anyone who has scraped up from 800' on a cross-country flight knows how comfortable 1500' feels by comparison. No one knows what really happened here but reminding people that we can get complacent is not a bad thing, although we should be sensitive about it.

I actually thought Boggs's responses were more uncalled for. But he just lost one of his best friends so I'm willing to cut him some slack. A lot of slack, actually. I know only too well how that feels. My own number (of friends and acquaintances who have been killed in soaring) is also 15.

To the general subject of how much to say in the aftermath of an accident: it depends. To say nothing when we have some information ignores the possibility that someone somewhere might benefit from being more cautious. To say too much, especially when speculating, has a lot of problems, too.

Dave Nadler's recent Arcus incident is a good example. No one really knows what happened. Yet there seems to be some indication of a possible rudder problem. Whether that turns out to be true or not, if I were an Arcus owner, I would want to know so that I could be especially vigilant in checking. The subsequent comments about what can happen when a rudder cable snaps were particularly enlightening (thanks, JJ!!).

Obviously I'm ignoring the potential legal implications in our overly litigious society. I can say with certainty, however, that the feds read this newsgroup so whatever we say is likely to come to their attention. Many of them are pretty smart, too; that's why they do investigations, hope for multiple eyewitness statements (which often disagree), and try to get the facts.

Final note: I like UH's approach. It's not about getting a free tow. It's the message that someone cares enough to do more than criticize (and I use that term reluctantly) about a potential problem. I approached a pilot many years ago who had just made a low pattern on a practice day and done a scary 180 degree onto final where the wings came level and the wheel touched almost simultaneously. He was obviously in complete control, but it made me nervous. He good naturedly fended me off in mock horror, laughing and raising his hands, and admitting that he'd already been called to account by others, and promised never to do it again. A few days later, in the contest, he turned low final into a field and stuck his wing down between some trees in the turn and caught a wire, cartwheeling him into the ground. He avoided becoming my fatality #16, but barely. Would he have done anything different if I had offered to buy him a tow? I have no idea. But perhaps my message might have meant more if I had. Bravo, UH; if you ever express that kind of concern about my flying, you can bet I will take it seriously.

Chip Bearden