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#1
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At 03:00 05 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:35:02 PM UTC-7, wrote= : The JS-3 is gonna spank it=E2=80=99s pee pee. Rather bold unsubstantiated claim. While Jonkers is a welcome addition to = the list of manufacturers, Schleicher has built more ASG-29's than Jonkers = has total aircraft. I bet Schleicher knows a thing or two on how to make t= heir new glider slip a bit better. Yeah the 28 and 30 and 31 have been real world beaters |
#2
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On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:00:08 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
At 03:00 05 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:35:02 PM UTC-7, wrote= : The JS-3 is gonna spank it=E2=80=99s pee pee. Rather bold unsubstantiated claim. While Jonkers is a welcome addition to = the list of manufacturers, Schleicher has built more ASG-29's than Jonkers = has total aircraft. I bet Schleicher knows a thing or two on how to make t= heir new glider slip a bit better. Yeah the 28 and 30 and 31 have been real world beaters The ASH-26, ASH-31 and ASH-30 were all designed by Martin H., as self launch motor gliders. The ASH-31 has sold over 300 gliders, sounds pretty successful to me, maybe you can name some other current self launcher that is as successful? As motor gliders they have more wing area so they can climb in weak thermals. Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed. It will be interesting to see if the V3 designed as a low energy glider with higher wing area and lower wing loading than the J3 or AS33 will prove to be the glider to have in all conditions. Only a few pilots race, most want a glider they can fly when it is strong or weak. On winter days I really miss the 6.2 pounds of my nimbus 4, and on summer days the 9.2 pounds just didn't seem enough, until the end of the day when I was still flying and the heavier wing loaded birds were on the ground put away. As for the ASW-28, standard is dead, and Schleicher never made a seriously competitive Standard class glider. Although I thought my ASW-24 was on par with a Discus in the run, maybe slightly better, I thought it did not climb as well, but it had a forward hinged canopy instead of the silly side hinged. |
#3
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[quote=Jonathan St. Cloud;973115]On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:00:08 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:[color=blue][i]
At 03:00 05 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:35:02 PM UTC-7, wrote= : The JS-3 is gonna spank it=E2=80=99s pee pee. Rather bold unsubstantiated claim. While Jonkers is a welcome addition to = the list of manufacturers, Schleicher has built more ASG-29's than Jonkers = has total aircraft. I bet Schleicher knows a thing or two on how to make t= heir new glider slip a bit better. 'As for the ASW-28, standard is dead, and Schleicher never made a seriously competitive Standard class glider.' Apart from the Ka6 maybe. . . . :-) Colin |
#4
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Another motor glider as successful as the ASH 31? There are 291 Ventus 2cM (including X variants) self launchers listed on the Rcawsey.co.uk site against 154 ASH 31s (although the latter list hadn't been updated recently). Also more self launching than turbo Ventus's are listed. I don't expect these figures to be entirely accurate on a spotter site but the point to the, for me very surprising, fact that SH are a major manufacturer of self launchers that are mostly registered into the large German market.
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#5
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At 22:59 06 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
As for the ASW-28, standard is dead, and Schleicher never made a seriously competitive Standard class glider. Although = I thought my ASW-24 was on par with a Discus in the run, maybe slightly bet= ter, I thought it did not climb as well, but it had a forward hinged canopy= instead of the silly side hinged. Hmmn Std Class dead? - 2nd largest class by number of entries at the Worlds, after Club Class. Seem to remember the ASW 19 winning one or two comps before the LS4 came along, and its won 3 World Champs. |
#6
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On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed. The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship. In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that. I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32 entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They have changed the nature of open class. Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship. They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday. Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school. What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to production and certification. |
#7
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I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32 entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They have changed the nature of open class. Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship. They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday. What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to production and certification.[/QUOTE .... and of course the JS1's hold the current titles in both 18m and Open classes of the WGC. With a bit of help from their pilots of course... ;-) |
#8
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On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 5:43:07 AM UTC-7, Brett wrote:
I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32 entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They have changed the nature of open class. Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship. They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday. What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to production and certification.[/QUOTE ... and of course the JS1's hold the current titles in both 18m and Open classes of the WGC. With a bit of help from their pilots of course... ;-) -- Brett Since this thread is about the AS-33, I wish Schleicher would share design details. All the designers that were the lead designers of the gliders we know are not with Schleicher any more. Who are the designers? Schleicher was very involved with the MU-31, wonder why they choose the wing position they did? The V3 has a max wing loading of 11.3 pound and was designed as a low energy glider, the offerings from AS and JS offer less wing area and and up to a pound more wing loading. The next few years should be interesting to see which design philosophy the market embraces. |
#9
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On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 8:26:25 AM UTC+2, Ian wrote:
On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed. The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship. In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that. I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32 entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They have changed the nature of open class. Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship. They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday. Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school. What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to production and certification. I agree 100%. What is not said here is that what great and helpful people the Jonkers are. I don't have one of their planes; but when making the JS-1 for Condor Simulator, they have been really responsive to my questions. Now its done, I asked for JS-3 data - they sent me the 3D nodel from their CAD system! |
#10
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On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed. The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship. In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that. I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32 entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They have changed the nature of open class. Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship. They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday. Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school.. What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to production and certification. Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it to full production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21. Hoping SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their amazing ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground. |
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