AS 33

At 16:18 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
=20
Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great
gliders.
Jo=
nkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced
a
han=
dful of gliders compared to the other two listed.
=20
The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m
ship.=
=20
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class
are=20
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.
=20
I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against
28m=20
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32=20
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries!
They=20
have changed the nature of open class.
=20
Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m
championship.=20
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.
=20
Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of
the=20
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at
school=
..
=20
What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they
have=20
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are=20
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they
have=20
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype
to=20
production and certification.

Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it
to
f=
ull production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21.
Hoping=
SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their
amazing
=
ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

You could have bought an Antares 23......

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 12:15:05 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
At 16:18 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
=20
Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great
gliders.
Jo=
nkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced
a
han=
dful of gliders compared to the other two listed.
=20
The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m
ship.=
=20
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class
are=20
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.
=20
I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against
28m=20
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32=20
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries!
They=20
have changed the nature of open class.
=20
Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m
championship.=20
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.
=20
Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of
the=20
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at
school=
..
=20
What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they
have=20
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are=20
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they
have=20
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype
to=20
production and certification.

Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it
to
f=
ull production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21.
Hoping=
SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their
amazing
=
ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

You could have bought an Antares 23......


No, if Lange couldn't work with SH to get them the data they needed to get the quintus certified, they why would they work with me any better?

At 19:37 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:


No, if Lange couldn't work with SH to get them the data they needed to
get
the quintus certified, they why would they work with me any better?


Incorrect,
S-H has had all data from Lange required to certify the Quintus for many
years now. Lange actually re-did the certification documentation multiple
times in order to accommodate for more weight of non-loading parts.

"Wer lesen kann ist klar im vorteil"

https://www.lange-aviation.com/en/pr...dukte/quintus/

..And if you like the Q, then you really ought to try the A23..

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 5:18:30 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it to full production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21. Hoping SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their amazing ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

The handling of the JS1c 21m is very nice indeed - not much different off tow from the original 18m version. I had one for 4 years and never had the slightest problem with it. The only (and now well known) issue is that the fully ballasted wing loading of about 60 kg/m2 requires that the pilot ensures that the aerotow speed is adequate.

Now with the AS33, the trend towards higher wing loading continues.

If you have 18m and open class in one competition (which is often the case), tow planes should be capable of towing 60kg/m² gliders at a safe speed with decent climb rates. They should also allow for 850kg MTOW on the rope for the Nimbus 4T waiting in the grid. There are not so many tugs available with this combination.

What would you consider to be a safe aerotow speed with a 21m-JS1c when fully ballasted?

Fully ballasted 70 knots minimum at all times (especially low down) what the manual specified. NB I interpreted that as being on the glider ASI as some tug types ASIs over-read significantly in the air. Pawnees seem to over-read by 5-7 knots probably due to not having accurate static pressure inputs so I asked for 75 knots with them. I always kept radio contact with the tug pilot.

My own club only had a 100 hp Eurofox so I never aerotowed the 21m there at more than 550kg and it wafted along happily at 65 knots.

Originally Posted by Ian[_2_]

On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed.

The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship.
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.

I bought my JS1C with 18 and 21m spans. I've owned an ASW27B, ASG29, and this JS. The JS is the best fit and finish- hands down. 7 hours on the engine and all for fun! I've flown it 200 hours now and wings are beautiful. Both my 27 and 29 developed spar bumps. One glitch on delivery and that was the FLARM was set up for Europe. Won't go into the issues that I had with the 29, but they weren't bad enough that they swore me off AS. I just ordered an ASG32Mi as a second ship, but if JS had a two-place 20m, well, the decision might have been tougher!

For race, you would want exatcly "low energy glider", competitions are not flown at vne & FL180. I wouldn't call V3 that, but if it will come out as good climbing glider it is a winner. Historically, almost all really succesful gliders are best climbers in it's class ( Discus, V2, LS8 etc.) Haven't had chance to compare my ASG29 to V3 yet but i do think that JS3's are not better (with 15m tips). With 18m wings it might be different story.

You are wrong concerning the 28 : it never made results in the standard class. It never broke the LS8 and discus2A domination. A good glider but not a beater.
The 30 was a failure in competition : too heavy, exceeding weight limit. Definitely not Ã* beater.
The 31 is a good cross country glider but not a beater in competition.
The ASG29 was and still is a beater in competition !