Flying with Parachutes

wrote on 8/13/2018 7:13 PM:
Having a chute needing one not having one

Yeah, yeah. I know. I screwed that one up. Sorry.

Better to have a chute and not need it than to need one and not have it.

I was always better at English than Math. Thank God for free apps.

In 5 minute, I was able to recall 7 pilots I know/knew whose lives were saved by
parachuting from their glider. I can't remember any pilots that were saved by seat
belts in their cars. So, if you know me, please wear a parachute, because there is
a good chance you will need to bail out of a glider, and I don't want to lose any
friends.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 7:36:50 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 8/13/2018 7:13 PM:
Having a chute needing one not having one

Yeah, yeah. I know. I screwed that one up. Sorry.

Better to have a chute and not need it than to need one and not have it..

I was always better at English than Math. Thank God for free apps.

In 5 minute, I was able to recall 7 pilots I know/knew whose lives were saved by
parachuting from their glider. I can't remember any pilots that were saved by seat
belts in their cars. So, if you know me, please wear a parachute, because there is
a good chance you will need to bail out of a glider, and I don't want to lose any
friends.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

I have been saved by a seat belt as the car I was in flipped end over end for the initial momentum dispersion then rolled down a hill before stopping. I wear seat belts and parachutes when appropriate. I do fly commercial rides at our gliderport were parachutes would not be practical on the scenic flights. I also have lots of both helicopter and Cessna time with not even the thought of wearing a chute.

tiistai 14. elokuuta 2018 7.10.18 UTC+3 Jonathan St. Cloud kirjoitti:

I do fly commercial rides at our gliderport were parachutes would not be practical on the scenic flights.

That's an excuse like no other. We do scenic flights all the time, and no passenger has ever said that wearing parachute is inconvenient. But obviously we live in different culture.

At 10:51 14 August 2018, krasw wrote:
tiistai 14. elokuuta 2018 7.10.18 UTC+3 Jonathan St. Cloud kirjoitti:

I do fly commercial rides at our gliderport were parachutes would not
be
practical on the scenic flights.

That's an excuse like no other. We do scenic flights all the time, and no
passenger has ever said that wearing parachute is inconvenient. But
obviously we live in different culture.

Someone on a 'scenic flight' rarely understands the risk involved in
flying, or to themselves. For this reason. at our club, the aim is that
introductory flights (which you categorise as scenic flights) should be the
safest training flight ever carried out. This includes wearing a
parachute, a brief from the instructor on exiting the glider in an
emergency and a brief on parachute deployment. The K21 breakup following a
lightning strike at Dunstable some years ago was an introductory flight (a
one day introductory course in this case) and the parachute saved the
passengers (and instructors) life. The accident report is linked below.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...pdf_500699.pdf


In my view, the only excuse for not providing passengers with a parachute
is if the glider is not designed in a way that makes it practical. Where
this is the case, you should really be considering whether it is an
appropriate glider to do such an introductory flight in. More experienced
people, who understand the risk, can of course make up their own mind.

Al

Do not buy a parachute. ...
Risk.....you have a much greater chance of dying driving using your phone. Driving fast. Eating while driving. Lightning. Gunshot, Crime.

R

Not true by a good measure, according to cited stats. Imagine giving that as "informed consent" to a uninformed rider! Trolling for lawyers, anyone? See Mr. Greenwell's post. That said, equally untrue is, as another famous CFIG once said, there's a 50/50 chance of dying each time you fly (i.e., either you live or you die).

That's faulty logic and that CFIG was making a joke.

On 8/14/2018 8:50 AM, Duster wrote:
That said, equally untrue is, as another famous CFIG once said, there's a 50/50 chance of dying each time you fly (i.e., either you live or you die).

--
Dan, 5J

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 3:51:23 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
tiistai 14. elokuuta 2018 7.10.18 UTC+3 Jonathan St. Cloud kirjoitti:

I do fly commercial rides at our gliderport were parachutes would not be practical on the scenic flights.

That's an excuse like no other. We do scenic flights all the time, and no passenger has ever said that wearing parachute is inconvenient. But obviously we live in different culture.

With all due respect there is a lot of judgement on this site. Most of my multiple thousands of hours of flight time is without a chute, nor would one have been appropriate or even useful (helicopter; twin). I certainly respect your operation's procedures and I don't disagree. However, many operations conduct commercial rides as a normal course of business without chutes.. A part time line pilot is not going to change how an operation has successfully run for over 45 years, with never an incident where a parachute would have been nice.

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 11:14:39 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 3:51:23 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
tiistai 14. elokuuta 2018 7.10.18 UTC+3 Jonathan St. Cloud kirjoitti:

I do fly commercial rides at our gliderport were parachutes would not be practical on the scenic flights.

That's an excuse like no other. We do scenic flights all the time, and no passenger has ever said that wearing parachute is inconvenient. But obviously we live in different culture.

With all due respect there is a lot of judgement on this site. Most of my multiple thousands of hours of flight time is without a chute, nor would one have been appropriate or even useful (helicopter; twin). I certainly respect your operation's procedures and I don't disagree. However, many operations conduct commercial rides as a normal course of business without chutes. A part time line pilot is not going to change how an operation has successfully run for over 45 years, with never an incident where a parachute would have been nice.

+1
UH

Dan Marotta wrote on 8/14/2018 7:58 AM:
That's faulty logic and that CFIG was making a joke.

On 8/14/2018 8:50 AM, Duster wrote:
That said, equally untrue is, as another famous CFIG once said, there's a 50/50
chance of dying each time you fly (i.e., either you live or you die).

It seemed uninformed about probability at the time, it distracted from the point
he (Knauff, right?) was trying to make, and I never saw the explanation that it
was a joke until now. Lots of people missed the joke explanation, apparently,
given the number that still comment on it's inaccuracy.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

Al McNamara wrote on 8/14/2018 5:22 AM:
At 10:51 14 August 2018, krasw wrote:
tiistai 14. elokuuta 2018 7.10.18 UTC+3 Jonathan St. Cloud kirjoitti:

I do fly commercial rides at our gliderport were parachutes would not
be
practical on the scenic flights.

That's an excuse like no other. We do scenic flights all the time, and no
passenger has ever said that wearing parachute is inconvenient. But
obviously we live in different culture.

Someone on a 'scenic flight' rarely understands the risk involved in
flying, or to themselves. For this reason. at our club, the aim is that
introductory flights (which you categorise as scenic flights) should be the
safest training flight ever carried out. This includes wearing a
parachute, a brief from the instructor on exiting the glider in an
emergency and a brief on parachute deployment. The K21 breakup following a
lightning strike at Dunstable some years ago was an introductory flight (a
one day introductory course in this case) and the parachute saved the
passengers (and instructors) life.

I think there is a significant distinction between scenic flights and training
flights, regardless what you call them. True scenic flights will be conducted in
good weather and not in potentially threatening weather, unlike the ASK 21
training flight, where thunderstorms were likely. I suggest an alternate
description of that flight could be "bad judgement for deciding to fly in those
conditions; good luck parachutes were routinely required".

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf