What electronics are worth buying

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 9:17:47 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks, I'll look into it.

As I said, I'm not averse to replacing a battery myself.Â* I was really
disappointed when I went to replace the batteries in the ELT in our
C-180 that the battery pack was made up of D-cells (6 of them) wired in
series but, rather than soldered wires there were welded tabs connecting
the batteries.Â* My soldering iron would not deliver the power required
to make solder stick to the batteries. Maybe silver solder and a
torch...Â* But I have no experience with that and would probably blow
myself up... :-(

On 10/27/2018 9:53 AM, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 9:14:05 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
I have renewed our ACR PLB registrations at least twice and there were
no requirements to test them that I know of.Â* I really should look into
the battery situation, however.Â* I'm good with a soldering iron; I only
hope the battery is not welded into the circuit.

On 10/26/2018 4:26 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 4:59:27 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
At that price I would just crack the case open and find out if I could replace the battery myself. Its highly unlikely they made a battery specifically for this device that couldnt be sourced elsewhere.
They also do testing and re-registration of the unit since if I remember correctly the registration will expire with the battery.
--
Dan, 5J
I assume you are speaking about the required (re)registration of your PLB at NOAA (versus logging in at the manufacturer's site). If so, then it is true that NOAA registration doesn't ask anything about your battery's condition or testing the unit. Their assumption is that the owner is responsible for this.

That being said my ACR PLB has the expiration date of the battery listed on the back and has a method to test the unit without calling in the troops.

And it goes without saying that a dead battery is about as useless as _______!

- John

--
Dan, 5J

My guess is that the tabs are welded because the heating is very localized and short duration, minimizing the risk that the battery itself would be damaged by excessive heating. I would not mess with this sort of thing as a DIY project.

John is correct, the NOAA registration is independent from battery replacement. I just went through it.

Andy Blackburn
9B

There is some weird speculation on this battery deal. So far it doesnt seem like anyone has actually opened the case to look. Sure it could be welded in. Or it could have some little clip that takes a handful of seconds to unplug. If its 50% the cost of the device to replace the battery, I would risk it and crack the device open. Because if I broke the device, I would chock it up to replacing legacy technology with something brand new. Maybe I'm just less risk averse because I've been building computers for 30 years, and have never shied away from cracking the case on something.

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 2:41:06 PM UTC-4, John Huthmaker wrote:
There is some weird speculation on this battery deal. So far it doesnt seem like anyone has actually opened the case to look. Sure it could be welded in. Or it could have some little clip that takes a handful of seconds to unplug. If its 50% the cost of the device to replace the battery, I would risk it and crack the device open. Because if I broke the device, I would chock it up to replacing legacy technology with something brand new. Maybe I'm just less risk averse because I've been building computers for 30 years, and have never shied away from cracking the case on something.

Certainly some people have opened it up. For example (with pictures):
https://advrider.com/f/threads/acr-r...cement.749245/

I'm confident I can replace the batteries myself, even if it requires soldering. And apparently you don't even need to "crack" the case, only unscrew a few screws. The issue is, if you buy generic batteries whereever, how can you be sure that they are of high enough quality to rely on them powering the PLB for 24 hours 5 years later?

Regarding the re-sealing of the case promised as part of the official battery replacement (how much can a gasket cost?), that is important if you are using the PLB for water sports. For aviation, not so much. Yes you may have a "water landing", but that's rather unlikely.

Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
https://www.batterybob.com/products/...tabs-lith-8-1/

Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlin...1/332810112016

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
https://www.batterybob.com/products/...tabs-lith-8-1/

Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlin...1/332810112016

I think I've been convinced that a PLB isn't worth buying.
T8

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:51:58 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
https://www.batterybob.com/products/...tabs-lith-8-1/

Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlin...1/332810112016

I think I've been convinced that a PLB isn't worth buying.
T8

Evan (T8),

Since their inception I have always been conflicted which is "better", PLB or Tracker (aka SPOT, inReach, etc). I made a presentation to the ChicagoLand Glider Council on this back in 2008. To determine a preference I did a pro/con analysis. Below are some highlights.

==========
Full Disclosure - I have owned three different models of an ACR PLB and have never owned a Tracker.
==========

Tracking - The trackers are clearly the winner because the PLBs don't do this at all. It can really be fun to track a bunch of pilots at a big contest. Bottom line: If you must have the tracking feature, stop reading now.

History - PLB (and their cousins the EPIRB) coverage began in 1972 using the COSPAS-SARSAT satellites and federal ground support personnel. Trackers have been around since 2007 and uses the Globalstar system and supported by brand specific ground personnel. Does longevity in the business mean anything? Does who the personnel are behind the scenes mean anything?

Cost - The Trackers are clearly cheaper up front versus a PLB but the tracker's monthly charge quickly levels the playing field. I call this even.

Battery - Yes, the PLB's replacement battery is rather expensive. However, they are good for 5 years. Will the batteries in your Tracker be working when you really need them? Maybe. During an emergency, I favor the PLB.

Coverage - Both types are basically anywhere you might ever want to soaring and where you can get satellite* coverage. Even again.

* Both types use GPS satellites for location. Trackers also use commercial satellite systems for messaging. PLB's use governmental SAR-SAT satellites.

Emergency Support - Here is where the rubber meets the road. There are two aspects to this.

Homing Signal - I believe all modern PLBs do this. I don't believe that the Trackers do but could be wrong.

1) Who comes to save your behind? Here in the US it will basically be the local first responders for either system. A tie again. Outside the US is a different matter as a PLB alert will be responded to in 30+ countries.

2) How fast will they arrive once the system operators get the alert? To me this is the bottom of the bottom line. Once SPOT ground personnel are alerted, they determine where you are and contact the local first responders. For the PLBs the military (U.S. Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Langley AFB) is contacted first and then scramble their forces.

--------------------

My $0.02. I am sticking with my PLB as I feel that in a true emergency I have the best chance of rescue.

Thanks, John OHM Ω

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 5:47:21 PM UTC-4, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:51:58 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
https://www.batterybob.com/products/...tabs-lith-8-1/

Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlin...1/332810112016

I think I've been convinced that a PLB isn't worth buying.
T8

Evan (T8),

Since their inception I have always been conflicted which is "better", PLB or Tracker (aka SPOT, inReach, etc). I made a presentation to the ChicagoLand Glider Council on this back in 2008. To determine a preference I did a pro/con analysis. Below are some highlights.

==========
Full Disclosure - I have owned three different models of an ACR PLB and have never owned a Tracker.
==========

Tracking - The trackers are clearly the winner because the PLBs don't do this at all. It can really be fun to track a bunch of pilots at a big contest. Bottom line: If you must have the tracking feature, stop reading now.

History - PLB (and their cousins the EPIRB) coverage began in 1972 using the COSPAS-SARSAT satellites and federal ground support personnel. Trackers have been around since 2007 and uses the Globalstar system and supported by brand specific ground personnel. Does longevity in the business mean anything? Does who the personnel are behind the scenes mean anything?

Cost - The Trackers are clearly cheaper up front versus a PLB but the tracker's monthly charge quickly levels the playing field. I call this even.

Battery - Yes, the PLB's replacement battery is rather expensive. However, they are good for 5 years. Will the batteries in your Tracker be working when you really need them? Maybe. During an emergency, I favor the PLB.

Coverage - Both types are basically anywhere you might ever want to soaring and where you can get satellite* coverage. Even again.

* Both types use GPS satellites for location. Trackers also use commercial satellite systems for messaging. PLB's use governmental SAR-SAT satellites.

Emergency Support - Here is where the rubber meets the road. There are two aspects to this.

Homing Signal - I believe all modern PLBs do this. I don't believe that the Trackers do but could be wrong.

1) Who comes to save your behind? Here in the US it will basically be the local first responders for either system. A tie again. Outside the US is a different matter as a PLB alert will be responded to in 30+ countries.

2) How fast will they arrive once the system operators get the alert? To me this is the bottom of the bottom line. Once SPOT ground personnel are alerted, they determine where you are and contact the local first responders. For the PLBs the military (U.S. Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Langley AFB) is contacted first and then scramble their forces.

--------------------

My $0.02. I am sticking with my PLB as I feel that in a true emergency I have the best chance of rescue.

Thanks, John OHM Ω

No glider pilot is going to get a golden hour rescue no matter what kind of beeper they have(unless they are paying for a trauma team to follow them around in a helicopter.) With a tracker they will find your corpse, with a PLB less likely, unless you live long enough(and remember) post crash to turn it on. With a tracker your family and friends can get on with life sooner.

Thanks Ohm. Divide a $150 battery replacement by 5 years and it is still way cheaper than any of the subscription services.

I would also add that by now we have other options for the tracking part. I've had good results this year using IGCdroid for tracking via the cellphone network, and that is free. I rely on IGCdroid for fun tracking, and on the PLB for real emergencies. Other tracking options include something like FLARMnet or OGN if you have that hardware and if ground stations are set up. GliderLink is now offered as another such option in the US.

No gizmo will work 100% of the time, and even if it does you may be dead. But the PLB does offer some chance of help. I am still working on a good way to attach it to the parachute though.

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 5:47:21 PM UTC-4, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 3:51:58 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
https://www.batterybob.com/products/...tabs-lith-8-1/

Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlin...1/332810112016

I think I've been convinced that a PLB isn't worth buying.
T8

Evan (T8),

Since their inception I have always been conflicted which is "better", PLB or Tracker (aka SPOT, inReach, etc). I made a presentation to the ChicagoLand Glider Council on this back in 2008. To determine a preference I did a pro/con analysis. Below are some highlights.

==========
Full Disclosure - I have owned three different models of an ACR PLB and have never owned a Tracker.
==========

Tracking - The trackers are clearly the winner because the PLBs don't do this at all. It can really be fun to track a bunch of pilots at a big contest. Bottom line: If you must have the tracking feature, stop reading now.

History - PLB (and their cousins the EPIRB) coverage began in 1972 using the COSPAS-SARSAT satellites and federal ground support personnel. Trackers have been around since 2007 and uses the Globalstar system and supported by brand specific ground personnel. Does longevity in the business mean anything? Does who the personnel are behind the scenes mean anything?

Cost - The Trackers are clearly cheaper up front versus a PLB but the tracker's monthly charge quickly levels the playing field. I call this even.

Battery - Yes, the PLB's replacement battery is rather expensive. However, they are good for 5 years. Will the batteries in your Tracker be working when you really need them? Maybe. During an emergency, I favor the PLB.

Coverage - Both types are basically anywhere you might ever want to soaring and where you can get satellite* coverage. Even again.

* Both types use GPS satellites for location. Trackers also use commercial satellite systems for messaging. PLB's use governmental SAR-SAT satellites.

Emergency Support - Here is where the rubber meets the road. There are two aspects to this.

Homing Signal - I believe all modern PLBs do this. I don't believe that the Trackers do but could be wrong.

1) Who comes to save your behind? Here in the US it will basically be the local first responders for either system. A tie again. Outside the US is a different matter as a PLB alert will be responded to in 30+ countries.

2) How fast will they arrive once the system operators get the alert? To me this is the bottom of the bottom line. Once SPOT ground personnel are alerted, they determine where you are and contact the local first responders. For the PLBs the military (U.S. Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Langley AFB) is contacted first and then scramble their forces.

--------------------

My $0.02. I am sticking with my PLB as I feel that in a true emergency I have the best chance of rescue.

Thanks, John OHM Ω

Hi John,

I was making sort of an oblique reference to the original point of the thread (now hopelessly derailed, but hey, that's r.a.s.).

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 4:33:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Here is one source for the needed battery cells (with tabs pre-welded):
https://www.batterybob.com/products/...tabs-lith-8-1/

Here is a source for the whole battery pack ready to plug in, $50 - not blessed by the factory:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlin...1/332810112016

The price for non-factory-authorized battery is now down to $39:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-ResQlin...1/332810112016

Or, for $55 they will also do the battery-replacement labor for you, includes shipping back to you:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACR-Resqlin...5/332852007531

Note: I am not affiliated with this seller, and have not used their service. If anybody does deal with them, let us know how it went.