TOW PLANE Accident

The report cited is a factual report, the accident docket info includes a still photo clearly showing the low position of the tug. However, I don’t see that a final report with a probable cause has been published yet. The NTSB states that this should be completed by 3/13/2019.

Originally Posted by Duster[_2_]

The report cited is a factual report, the accident docket info includes a still photo clearly showing the low position of the tug. However, I don’t see that a final report with a probable cause has been published yet. The NTSB states that this should be completed by 3/13/2019.

Where does one find the information regarding the "accident docket" you mention?

Walt Connelly

As a former tow pilot with just short of 7000 tows I can say I have experienced two very sudden and violent kiting incidents. One at 2K feet and one at just above 300 feet. Not every kiting incident is a slowly evolving type giving the tow pilot time to reach for and actuate the release. I was flying with a Schweizer hook conventionally installed and a release handle on the floor of the Pawnee. In both incidents I was unable to release the rope. The 2K incident resolved when the glider pilot realized what he had done and release, in the 300 foot incident the rope broke...fortunately.

I understand the tow plane in this incident had a Tost system and a guillotine. My question would be..where was the release? Was it down on the floor or up where the pilot could easily grab and actuate it? I could reach the handle in both incidents but again, the pressure was too great to effect a release. This is acknowledged in the SSA literature in BRIGHT RED LETTERS and yet these conditions persisted at the time of my incidents. My understanding of the guillotine system is that there is no pressure on the handle.

The autopsy seems to conclude there was no heart attack. The pilot was 5' 11" tall and weighed 190 lbs giving him a BMI of 26.5, just at the low end of overweight. He had some mild to moderate coronary artery disease, this did not appear to contribute to the problem. In addition the last view of the elevator appears to show it in the up position indicating that the pilot was trying to get his nose up....a futile attempt until the glider is released.

The report indicates that the glider was approximately 250' AGL when the ROPE BROKE under the strain. The tow plane was estimated to be 63 feet below the glider at the time based on a tow rope length of 160 feet. This would put the tow plane below 200 feet. My low kiting experience happened at just over 300 feet. Had the rope not broken I would have been another statistic. As it was I recovered at tree top level, slightly below some of the trees off to the side. I had just enough room to recover, the gentleman who died in this incident did not.

How long should it take an instructor to react when he can't see the tow plane? The proper reaction is TO RELEASE IMMEDIATELY. In the second video it was at 9 seconds when a snapping sound was heard FOLLOWED by the release being pulled. The report indicates that the rope broke under the strain while the glider was still attached. The instructor pulled the release AFTER the rope broke as I interpret the report.

If we can't expect an instructor to keep his eyes on the tow plane AND when he realizes the towplane is no longer in his line of sight to release immediately, how can we expect a 15 year old on her 3rd solo to react properly?

JMHO

Walt Connelly

At 13:50 28 February 2019, wrote:
As a former tow pilot with just short of 7000 tows I can say I
have
experie=
nced two very sudden and violent kiting incidents. One at 2K
feet and one
a=
t just above 300 feet. Not every kiting incident is a slowly
evolving type
=
giving the tow pilot time to reach for and actuate the release. I
was
flyin=
g with a Schweizer hook conventionally installed and a release
handle on
th=
e floor of the Pawnee. In both incidents I was unable to release
the rope.
=
The 2K incident resolved when the glider pilot realized what he
had done
an=
d release, in the 300 foot incident the rope broke...fortunately.

I understand the tow plane in this incident had a Tost system
and a
guillot=
ine. My question would be..where was the release? Was it down
on the floor
=
or up where the pilot could easily grab and actuate it? I could
reach the
h=
andle in both incidents but again, the pressure was too great to
effect a
r=
elease. This is acknowledged in the SSA literature in BRIGHT
RED LETTERS
an=
d yet these conditions persisted at the time of my incidents. My
understand=
ing of the guillotine system is that there is no pressure on the
handle.=20

The autopsy seems to conclude there was no heart attack. The
pilot was 5'
1=
1" tall and weighed 190 lbs giving him a BMI of 26.5, just at the
low end
o=
f overweight. He had some mild to moderate coronary artery
disease, this
di=
d not appear to contribute to the problem. In addition the last
view of
the=
elevator appears to show it in the up position indicating that
the pilot
w=
as trying to get his nose up....a futile attempt until the glider is
releas=
ed.=20

The report indicates that the glider was approximately 250' AGL
when the
RO=
PE BROKE under the strain. The tow plane was estimated to be
63 feet below
=
the glider at the time based on a tow rope length of 160 feet.
This would
p=
ut the tow plane below 200 feet. My low kiting experience
happened at just
=
over 300 feet. Had the rope not broken I would have been
another
statistic.=
As it was I recovered at tree top level, slightly below some of
the trees
=
off to the side. I had just enough room to recover, the
gentleman who died
=
in this incident did not.=20

How long should it take an instructor to react when he can't see
the tow
pl=
ane? The proper reaction is TO RELEASE IMMEDIATELY. In the
second video it
=
was at 9 seconds when a snapping sound was heard FOLLOWED
by the release
be=
ing pulled. The report indicates that the rope broke under the
strain
while=
the glider was still attached. The instructor pulled the release
AFTER
the=
rope broke as I interpret the report.=20

If we can't expect an instructor to keep his eyes on the tow
plane AND
when=
he realizes the towplane is no longer in his line of sight to
release
imme=
diately, how can we expect a 15 year old on her 3rd solo to
react
properly?=
=20

JMHO

Walt Connelly



I am not making excuses for anyone, but last summer I was
conducting a trail lesson in a DG1000 .The tow pilot found a good
thermal and we climbed well, near my release height the tug
levelled his wings, then just vanished below my view.
I of course released immediately .
Afterwards the tug pilot, who happened to be our chief flying
instructor, had a little chat with me.
We decided he flew out of the side of the thermal out of+5 into-5
and so were in different air. Suffice it to say the time period was
between 1&2 seconds from all being normal and the tug
vanishing.
Thankfully we were at 2000 ft.

Originally Posted by Jonathon May

At 13:50 28 February 2019, wrote:
As a former tow pilot with just short of 7000 tows I can say I
have
experie=
nced two very sudden and violent kiting incidents. One at 2K
feet and one
a=
t just above 300 feet. Not every kiting incident is a slowly
evolving type
=
giving the tow pilot time to reach for and actuate the release. I
was
flyin=
g with a Schweizer hook conventionally installed and a release
handle on
th=
e floor of the Pawnee. In both incidents I was unable to release
the rope.
=
The 2K incident resolved when the glider pilot realized what he
had done
an=
d release, in the 300 foot incident the rope broke...fortunately.

I understand the tow plane in this incident had a Tost system
and a
guillot=
ine. My question would be..where was the release? Was it down
on the floor
=
or up where the pilot could easily grab and actuate it? I could
reach the
h=
andle in both incidents but again, the pressure was too great to
effect a
r=
elease. This is acknowledged in the SSA literature in BRIGHT
RED LETTERS
an=
d yet these conditions persisted at the time of my incidents. My
understand=
ing of the guillotine system is that there is no pressure on the
handle.=20

The autopsy seems to conclude there was no heart attack. The
pilot was 5'
1=
1" tall and weighed 190 lbs giving him a BMI of 26.5, just at the
low end
o=
f overweight. He had some mild to moderate coronary artery
disease, this
di=
d not appear to contribute to the problem. In addition the last
view of
the=
elevator appears to show it in the up position indicating that
the pilot
w=
as trying to get his nose up....a futile attempt until the glider is
releas=
ed.=20

The report indicates that the glider was approximately 250' AGL
when the
RO=
PE BROKE under the strain. The tow plane was estimated to be
63 feet below
=
the glider at the time based on a tow rope length of 160 feet.
This would
p=
ut the tow plane below 200 feet. My low kiting experience
happened at just
=
over 300 feet. Had the rope not broken I would have been
another
statistic.=
As it was I recovered at tree top level, slightly below some of
the trees
=
off to the side. I had just enough room to recover, the
gentleman who died
=
in this incident did not.=20

How long should it take an instructor to react when he can't see
the tow
pl=
ane? The proper reaction is TO RELEASE IMMEDIATELY. In the
second video it
=
was at 9 seconds when a snapping sound was heard FOLLOWED
by the release
be=
ing pulled. The report indicates that the rope broke under the
strain
while=
the glider was still attached. The instructor pulled the release
AFTER
the=
rope broke as I interpret the report.=20

If we can't expect an instructor to keep his eyes on the tow
plane AND
when=
he realizes the towplane is no longer in his line of sight to
release
imme=
diately, how can we expect a 15 year old on her 3rd solo to
react
properly?=
=20

JMHO

Walt Connelly



I am not making excuses for anyone, but last summer I was
conducting a trail lesson in a DG1000 .The tow pilot found a good
thermal and we climbed well, near my release height the tug
levelled his wings, then just vanished below my view.
I of course released immediately .
Afterwards the tug pilot, who happened to be our chief flying
instructor, had a little chat with me.
We decided he flew out of the side of the thermal out of+5 into-5
and so were in different air. Suffice it to say the time period was
between 1&2 seconds from all being normal and the tug
vanishing.
Thankfully we were at 2000 ft.

I've experienced a kiting at 2K feet which was the fault of the glider pilot reaching for the release, slipping back in his seat and pulling back on the stick. It happens in the wink of an eye and as I have indicated with the Schweizer system it's near impossible to release. Interesting that my two severe kiting incidents were with the two ends of the age spectrum. An elderly individual with obvious physical difficulties whom I did not know hadn't taken a tow in over a year and a 15 year old student on her initial solos. Personally I don't like the idea of thermalling on tow unless the tow pilot and glider pilot discuss this and agree to do so.

Walt

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 8:50:17 AM UTC-5, wrote:

If we can't expect an instructor to keep his eyes on the tow plane AND when he realizes the towplane is no longer in his line of sight to release immediately, how can we expect a 15 year old on her 3rd solo to react properly?

Of the several 15 year old glider pilots that I have known, I would trust their eyesight, reflexes and training to, first of all avoid kiting, and if some freakish kite happened, I would wholly expect them to release immediately. Likewise, I would trust any of the newly minted 18 year old CPLs that I've known to give my brother a glider ride. Pilots with more experience have had time to become complacent and develop bad habits. Tabla rasa(s) not so much.

At 04:42 02 March 2019, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 8:50:17 AM UTC-5,

wro=
te:

If we can't expect an instructor to keep his eyes on the tow
plane AND
wh=
en he realizes the towplane is no longer in his line of sight to
release
im=
mediately, how can we expect a 15 year old on her 3rd solo to
react
properl=
y?=20

Of the several 15 year old glider pilots that I have known, I
would trust
t=
heir eyesight, reflexes and training to, first of all avoid kiting,
and if
=
some freakish kite happened, I would wholly expect them to
release
immediat=
ely. Likewise, I would trust any of the newly minted 18 year old
CPLs
that=
I've known to give my brother a glider ride. Pilots with more
experience
=
have had time to become complacent and develop bad habits.
Tabla rasa(s)
n=
ot so much.


I think you are right, more experience leads to complacencies
and you start going things while your body gets on with the
automatic actions, just as you would in a car.
I think it is a personal discipline case where you follow the rule
even though they feel a bit silly, like using a mobile phone in the
car.
On 1 level you think you'r quite capable of doing the simple task
like re -set the altimeter or radio, but in fact if you do your not
really concentrating on the tow.
On the other level you know you were trained to leave everything
until you finished the tow.
Its a discipline thing to stick to the rules

I think you are right, more experience leads to complacencies
and you start doing things while your body gets on with the automatic
actions, just as you would in a car. I think it is a personal discipline
case where you follow the rule even though they feel a bit silly, like
using a mobile phone in the car. On 1 level you think you're quite capable
of doing the simple task like re -set the altimeter or radio, but in fact
if you do you're not really concentrating on the tow. On the other level you
know you were trained to leave everything until you finished the tow. Its a
discipline thing to stick to the rules.

Bingo.

It's that and more, IMO. *Arrogant* complacency ("Nothing could POSSibly go
wrong!") is a powerfully alluring combination when it comes to decision-making.

Add in 'simple thoughtlessness,' and some occasional compulsions to 'show
off,' and foolish behavior apparently becomes irresistible to many pilots.
It's a human-thing...but also entirely avoidable by active choice.

In this particular accident 'showing off' likely wasn't a factor, but that's
not my point here...

Bob W.

---
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It doesn't matter whose eyesight and reflexes you might trust, Flub.Â* It
is the Pilot in Command's responsibility to conduct the flight in a safe
manner.Â* If there's a CFI in the aircraft and the other manipulator of
the controls is not a licensed pilot, then the CFI is the PIC and he's
responsible.Â* Plain and simple.

All that other stuff about complacency is right and I fully agree. I
remember during my Air Force days when I was told that a pilot is most
dangerous when he's got about 500 hours.

On 3/1/2019 9:42 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 8:50:17 AM UTC-5, wrote:

If we can't expect an instructor to keep his eyes on the tow plane AND when he realizes the towplane is no longer in his line of sight to release immediately, how can we expect a 15 year old on her 3rd solo to react properly?
Of the several 15 year old glider pilots that I have known, I would trust their eyesight, reflexes and training to, first of all avoid kiting, and if some freakish kite happened, I would wholly expect them to release immediately. Likewise, I would trust any of the newly minted 18 year old CPLs that I've known to give my brother a glider ride. Pilots with more experience have had time to become complacent and develop bad habits. Tabla rasa(s) not so much.




--
Dan, 5J

On Saturday, March 2, 2019 at 11:21:57 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
If there's a CFI in the aircraft and the other manipulator of
the controls is not a licensed pilot, then the CFI is the PIC and he's
responsible.Â*

Yeah but, I was commenting on the trustworthiness of

"a 15 year old on her 3rd SOLO". Maybe I did not make myself clear.