Waxing and polishing

Senna have you heard about hard waxing? Using a rotary
buffing wheel and a block of hard wax to do the entire glider
minus the canopy.

Also good stuff is the 2 part WX Block and Seal
available from wings and wheels.

The Plexus is for the canopy only not the glider itself it
looks like this thread drifted.

Op zondag 3 maart 2019 15:30:26 UTC+1 schreef joesimmers:
Senna have you heard about hard waxing? Using a rotary
buffing wheel and a block of hard wax to do the entire glider
minus the canopy.

Also good stuff is the 2 part WX Block and Seal
available from wings and wheels.

The Plexus is for the canopy only not the glider itself it
looks like this thread drifted.

To be honest, never done it or had it done on a car or glider, I bought my DG 101 last year and want it to stay in great condition and stumbled upon that care kit with waxing and polishing products and thought it might be worth the effort

In general, a decent washing (I use a car specific wash, dish soap is usually harsh and tends to strip wax) and almost any car wax is better than nothing.
Better is once a year or so, a light sanding (say.....1500grit wet or higher) followed by a machine applied hard wax is more betterer......
Pretty much anything to help seal the surface is decent.
Granted, some wing profiles (PIK-20, SGS-1-35, etc.) don't really want wax since it causes water to bead which kills the L/D. Fly in rain, drop the gear......

On Sun, 03 Mar 2019 09:45:02 -0800, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

To be honest, never done it or had it done on a car or glider, I bought
my DG 101 last year and want it to stay in great condition and stumbled
upon that care kit with waxing and polishing products and thought it
might be worth the effort

I, and other pilots at my club, used to use Mer car polish, but
apparently its now a non-starter because recently they've been adding
silicone to the mixture. The polish in blue containers did not use
silicone but the more recent polishes in black containers all include it
in their ingredient lists.

I've been told to never use silicone based polish because it is said to
make repairs to fibreglass or carbon structures very difficult or
impossible to repair.

In fact I remember reading that here, so it must be true!

OTOH I've not seen any publications that mention the effect of silicone
contamination on repairability. The only article on repairing FRP
structures I've seen, in a search I just carried out, that even mentions
contamination in any detail is:

https://compositesuk.co.uk/system/files/documents/
repairoffrpstructures.pdf

It has a short section about contamination (half a page in a 33 page PDF
document) that mentions "fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid, etc" and moisture,
but says nothing about the perils of silicone-based polishes.

The other 2-3 publications my search turned up that didn't turn out to be
pushing supplier's products either did not mention contamination at all,
or gave no details apart from describing how to sand through surface
finish.

So, what's the deal?

Are silicone-containing polishes etc to be shunned?

Can anybody recommend an FRP repair publication that gives any more
details about dealing with contamination than the one I quoted above?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On 3/3/2019 12:08 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:

Snip...

I've been told to never use silicone based polish because it is said to
make repairs to fibreglass or carbon structures very difficult or
impossible to repair.

In fact I remember reading that here, so it must be true!

OTOH I've not seen any publications that mention the effect of silicone
contamination on repairability. The only article on repairing FRP
structures I've seen, in a search I just carried out, that even mentions
contamination in any detail is:

https://compositesuk.co.uk/system/files/documents/
repairoffrpstructures.pdf

It has a short section about contamination (half a page in a 33 page PDF
document) that mentions "fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid, etc" and moisture, but
says nothing about the perils of silicone-based polishes.

The other 2-3 publications my search turned up that didn't turn out to be
pushing supplier's products either did not mention contamination at all, or
gave no details apart from describing how to sand through surface finish.

So, what's the deal?

Are silicone-containing polishes etc to be shunned?

Can anybody recommend an FRP repair publication that gives any more details
about dealing with contamination than the one I quoted above?

Lordy, it must be winter in the northern hemisphere!

Certainly there's no harm in avoiding 'silicone-ingrediented' waxes, but IMO
'commonly-held views' on the subject border on religious arguments in that
'proof of one's beliefs' is rarely part of the discussion.

So while we're polling, let's not forget including FRP repair shops' inputs.
My own direct shop-input querying-experience - *not* repairs, sardonic chuckle
- includes a mere 3 (4 counting a long-ago RAS post by JJ Sinclair), and, so
far, each puts "Silicone = Bad!" into the urban myth category. Further, who
can point me toward an accident report involving structural failure of a
repaired FRP glider, that has 'fingered' silicone as a contributing factor?

N.B. For the disputatiously-inclined, I am NOT recommending spraying every
accessible surface of your bird with silicone spray (a little common sense can
go a long way), but rather positing that 'fretting over its presence in wax,'
arguably falls into the urban-myth/anally-self-inflicted worry category.

YMMV, of course...

Bob - last night's low -1 deg F. here - W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

I seem to recall asking Fidel about silicone in waxes.Â* He said not to
worry about it.

On 3/3/2019 2:59 PM, BobW wrote:
On 3/3/2019 12:08 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:

Snip...

I've been told to never use silicone based polish because it is said
to make repairs to fibreglass or carbon structures very difficult or
impossible to repair.

In fact I remember reading that here, so it must be true!

OTOH I've not seen any publications that mention the effect of
silicone contamination on repairability. The only article on
repairing FRP structures I've seen, in a search I just carried out,
that even mentions contamination in any detail is:

https://compositesuk.co.uk/system/files/documents/
repairoffrpstructures.pdf

It has a short section about contamination (half a page in a 33 page
PDF document) that mentions "fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid, etc" and
moisture, but
says nothing about the perils of silicone-based polishes.

The other 2-3 publications my search turned up that didn't turn out
to be pushing supplier's products either did not mention
contamination at all, or
gave no details apart from describing how to sand through surface
finish.

So, what's the deal?

Are silicone-containing polishes etc to be shunned?

Can anybody recommend an FRP repair publication that gives any more
details
about dealing with contamination than the one I quoted above?

Lordy, it must be winter in the northern hemisphere!

Certainly there's no harm in avoiding 'silicone-ingrediented' waxes,
but IMO 'commonly-held views' on the subject border on religious
arguments in that 'proof of one's beliefs' is rarely part of the
discussion.

So while we're polling, let's not forget including FRP repair shops'
inputs. My own direct shop-input querying-experience - *not* repairs,
sardonic chuckle - includes a mere 3 (4 counting a long-ago RAS post
by JJ Sinclair), and, so far, each puts "Silicone = Bad!" into the
urban myth category. Further, who can point me toward an accident
report involving structural failure of a repaired FRP glider, that has
'fingered' silicone as a contributing factor?

N.B. For the disputatiously-inclined, I am NOT recommending spraying
every accessible surface of your bird with silicone spray (a little
common sense can go a long way), but rather positing that 'fretting
over its presence in wax,' arguably falls into the
urban-myth/anally-self-inflicted worry category.

YMMV, of course...

Bob - last night's low -1 deg F. here - W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


--
Dan, 5J

On Sun, 03 Mar 2019 16:05:30 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Thanks Dan and Bob. Noted for future reference.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

I also asked Fidel about silicone in wax. He held up an angle grinder with a sanding disc and said it was tougher than any silicone he's encountered. But he also recommended Carnauba wax for its sealing properties.

On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 9:08:48 PM UTC+2, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Are silicone-containing polishes etc to be shunned?

Can anybody recommend an FRP repair publication that gives any more
details about dealing with contamination than the one I quoted above?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

I know at least one refinish of a glider that was ruined because removal of silicone from surfaces was not done properly. They had to sand and paint glider twice.

It is probably impossible to avoid silicon completely, many car waxes have it without any mention in specs. But if you have a chance of avoiding it, please do.

I wax my glider with hard paste-style Collinite. With normal "easy to apply"- fluid waxes (=most likely to have silicone) the wax wears off pretty fast from leading edges.

At 09:44 04 March 2019, krasw wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 9:08:48 PM UTC+2, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Are silicone-containing polishes etc to be shunned?

Can anybody recommend an FRP repair publication that gives any more
details about dealing with contamination than the one I quoted above?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

I know at least one refinish of a glider that was ruined because removal
of
silicone from surfaces was not done properly. They had to sand and paint
glider twice.

It is probably impossible to avoid silicon completely, many car waxes
have
it without any mention in specs. But if you have a chance of avoiding it,
please do.

I wax my glider with hard paste-style Collinite. With normal "easy to
apply"- fluid waxes (=most likely to have silicone) the wax wears off
pretty fast from leading edges.

One of my chums has done some research on polishes.
Most polishes and waxes contain silicone, here are the one’s that
don’t. Most were checked by looking at the Safety Data Sheet.

Vistal Cleaning: “One boat cleaner�.
Boatsheen: “Best Brazilian boat wax� – carnauba wax blended into a
cream.
BulletPolish: “Carnauba Quick Spray wax� – a cleaner with wax but no
abrasives.
Yachtca “High gloss finish� – a polishing and waxing paste.
Starbrite: “Presoftened boat wax� – based on carnauba wax but
softened for hand application.
Starbrite: “Marine polish� – polishes and waxes (Carnauba not
mentioned).
Starbrite: “Hull cleaner�. (NB Premium and products with PTEF contain
silicone.)

The 3M products Perfect-it Light cutting Polish & Wax and Perfect-it Boat
Wax both contain silicone. Meguiars Boat/RV pure wax contains silicone,
don’t know about Meguiars Flagship Marine wax.

Putting the company name into Google finds all of the above.

From the above info the Starbrite range or the Vistal Cleaning “One boat
cleaner� with Boatsheen “Best Brazilian boat wax� look attractive. I
guess the only way to evaluate them is try them?

(I use the Vistal product on my LS8 and Cobra trailer to clean the surfaces
prior to polishing and it works really well.)

Hope this helps. Mike