Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

I have about 3,000 hours on various ASWs incl. ASW 20, 20B,(both without winglets) and now ASW 27. I found the ASW 20 to be a wonderful machine, but, as others have said, the full landing flap has to be used carefully. My brother was more of an S-H man having owned a Standard Cirrus, Mini-Nimbus and then a Ventus B. He did very well with them in competitions. Finally, he bought a share in an ASW 20C. After his first flight his only comment was " now I know why you guys did so well in the ASW 20s". He found the handling to be quite a bit better than that of the Ventus B. I also found that the ASW 20B and Ventus B were equals in almost all conditions but the ASW had the handling edge.

On Sunday, 31 March 2019 23:04:06 UTC-4, Michael N. wrote:
I'm looking for a glider for cross country in the $25k range.

I'd like to get a flapped 15 meter, and have been doing a lot of searching and reading on the groups and have kind of narrowed my decision down to an ASW20 or LS3a

I have about 200 hours in gliders all glass, but never anything with flaps, however I also owned and have several hundred hours in a Mooney M20C so have good experience in complex aircraft that require good in flight planning for various aspects of flight.

I was also considering the following, and will list some of my reasons for weeding them out of my choice list.

Ventus B: Great performance, but my understanding from reading (no actual experience) is that they are not forgiving or maybe a better way of putting it, is they require full time attention which can be fatiguing on long flights.

DG 200 or 202, good aircraft but you have to pay annual fees just to buy parts?

Mini Nimbus: also good aircraft, just not up to the same performance level as an ASW20

That kind of leaves the ASW20 or LS3 in this price range and category. Unless I am missing something.

So which would you have and why?
I am leaning towards an ASW20 purchase, but am finding some very well equipped LS3a's in the same price range as a moderately equipped ASW20.

Assuming similar clamshell style trailers and self rigging gear, which is the better buy or which would you have and why?

Also, anyone knowing of an ASW20 or LS3 for sale not already on Wings and Wheels, I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks, I know this topic has been brought up before, but I am in the final stages of preparing for a purchase before the 2019 season gets into full swing and would like to get some final advice before pulling the trigger on this purchase.

One remark I would like to make to Micheal N. that has not been made so far on this thread as to do with the 3000 hrs inspection that a certified A/C might require. In the cohort of gliders that you are considering (70s - 80s) you may find A/C getting close to this milestone. This may have to be considered in your purchase decision.

In my case, getting the inspection and maintenance for a life extension to 6000 hrs was a "piece of cake". That was due in part because of the great maintenance job that the two previous owners did on our ASW-20 (wink,wink, THX Uli), and also for the great engineering and support from AS. The few pieces that we had to change (rudder cable, forward and aft carry-through pins, rudder bottom hinge) were easy to obtain, relatively inexpensive and a charm to install. A member at my club, who also had to get the 6000 hrs life extension for his non-AS german glider would have a completely different and more expensive story to tell.

My point, for Micheal N., is not to do any "my glider vs your glider" bashing, but to point out that this may be an important variable to add in your purchase equation. As a first owner, you should be aware of this.

As for the "Jesus Flaps"... they are a lot of fun but you have to used with care. Only deploy when you know you are making the field. I have read, I believe in the POH, that the ASW-20 with full spoilers and the "JF" gets an incredible 4:1 glide ratio. From the cockpit, this almost look like going straight down :-0


On Wednesday, 3 April 2019 18:48:53 UTC-4, wrote:
I have about 3,000 hours on various ASWs incl. ASW 20, 20B,(both without winglets) and now ASW 27. I found the ASW 20 to be a wonderful machine, but, as others have said, the full landing flap has to be used carefully. My brother was more of an S-H man having owned a Standard Cirrus, Mini-Nimbus and then a Ventus B. He did very well with them in competitions. Finally, he bought a share in an ASW 20C. After his first flight his only comment was " now I know why you guys did so well in the ASW 20s". He found the handling to be quite a bit better than that of the Ventus B. I also found that the ASW 20B and Ventus B were equals in almost all conditions but the ASW had the handling edge.

Originally Posted by KarlBoutin

One remark I would like to make to Micheal N. that has not been made so far on this thread as to do with the 3000 hrs inspection that a certified A/C might require. In the cohort of gliders that you are considering (70s - 80s) you may find A/C getting close to this milestone. This may have to be considered in your purchase decision.

In my case, getting the inspection and maintenance for a life extension to 6000 hrs was a "piece of cake". That was due in part because of the great maintenance job that the two previous owners did on our ASW-20 (wink,wink, THX Uli), and also for the great engineering and support from AS. The few pieces that we had to change (rudder cable, forward and aft carry-through pins, rudder bottom hinge) were easy to obtain, relatively inexpensive and a charm to install. A member at my club, who also had to get the 6000 hrs life extension for his non-AS german glider would have a completely different and more expensive story to tell.

My point, for Micheal N., is not to do any "my glider vs your glider" bashing, but to point out that this may be an important variable to add in your purchase equation. As a first owner, you should be aware of this.

As for the "Jesus Flaps"... they are a lot of fun but you have to used with care. Only deploy when you know you are making the field. I have read, I believe in the POH, that the ASW-20 with full spoilers and the "JF" gets an incredible 4:1 glide ratio. From the cockpit, this almost look like going straight down :-0


On Wednesday, 3 April 2019 18:48:53 UTC-4, wrote:
I have about 3,000 hours on various ASWs incl. ASW 20, 20B,(both without winglets) and now ASW 27. I found the ASW 20 to be a wonderful machine, but, as others have said, the full landing flap has to be used carefully. My brother was more of an S-H man having owned a Standard Cirrus, Mini-Nimbus and then a Ventus B. He did very well with them in competitions. Finally, he bought a share in an ASW 20C. After his first flight his only comment was " now I know why you guys did so well in the ASW 20s". He found the handling to be quite a bit better than that of the Ventus B. I also found that the ASW 20B and Ventus B were equals in almost all conditions but the ASW had the handling edge.

Lurker for a while as well as a new 20a driver . I was dying to try the flaps I heard about so much . I did a test pattern at 2,000 ft to familiarize myself with the descent angle . And Damn for me it's like being back in a 1-26 with the spoilers out save for better visibility over the nose . I tossed in a slip as well but it didn't seem to make much difference . I pulled spoilers in and flared a bit higher as I had 3/4 of a 2000' runway and stopped in 600' after touchdown without brakes . I can honestly say knowing the option is there for an off field landing helps reduce stress. But as others noted make sure you have the field made and only use them when on final .

This thread makes me want to go find a LS

At 01:47 05 April 2019, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

This thread makes me want to go find a LS


A member of my club has just emaiied the members offering this


https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...H4lsU7jozxg4EX
2pwmz0-V51u0lVMJioqaz6DmBZvTtLK_IA?
key=Z2RRN29MYkljQTV6TmtvbndNMzI0YjVqTmJmQndB

£30 000 UK pounds Its a lovely machine

At 07:07 05 April 2019, Stephen Struthers wrote:
At 01:47 05 April 2019, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

This thread makes me want to go find a LS


Sorry link on previous post didn't work !!

A member of my club has just emaiied the members offering this

£30 000 UK pounds Its a lovely machine

https://photos.app.goo.gl/j44feKhifZVMb38Q8

At 07:27 05 April 2019, Stephen Struthers wrote:
At 07:07 05 April 2019, Stephen Struthers wrote:
At 01:47 05 April 2019, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

This thread makes me want to go find a LS


Sorry link on previous post didn't work !!

A member of my club has just emaiied the members offering this

£30 000 UK pounds Its a lovely machine

https://photos.app.goo.gl/j44feKhifZVMb38Q8


AT £30,000 IS IS A VERY CHEAP GLIDER.

At 07:27 05 April 2019, Stephen Struthers wrote:
At 07:07 05 April 2019, Stephen Struthers wrote:
At 01:47 05 April 2019, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

This thread makes me want to go find a LS


Sorry link on previous post didn't work !!

A member of my club has just emaiied the members offering this

£30 000 UK pounds Its a lovely machine

https://photos.app.goo.gl/j44feKhifZVMb38Q8


This is a LS 6a

So I have never imported a glider from overseas, although I understand it is relatively commonly done.
Any insight on how difficult this process is and in general the cost involved?
Obviously I understand I have to get the current conversion rate. But what about shipping fees, customs clearance, FAA registration and inspection requirements, etc. I don't want to go too far off topic here, but some general insight would be helpful.
I had thought about the import option and was thinking at my price range it would not be worth the trouble. However maybe some general insight in the process would be useful.
Wow, again so much great information here. Thanks all